Pentair/fleck 7000 not softening

[Jonboy5660]

NEW HOME OWNER/NEW TO WATER SOFTENING

-Just bought a home with a pentair 7000 water softener softener is working I had a so called WATER DR come out and inspect my softener to troubleshoot softener. All he did was open my brine tank lid to see if i had salt in it and hit some buttons on on the controller. He tested my water with what I assume was a hach5b test kit it took 16 drops. Ithe regenerates just fine goes through all the motions last nite I reset all the settings to the default settings the only one that I think was wrong was the hardness setting it was at 9 I changed it to 16 is that right?
Any help would be much appreciated. The house sat empty for a couple months when we purchased the house the brine tank had no salt just water. I cleaned the tank out and added salt yesterday I watched it suck the brine solution out and refill so I assume the brine system is functioning correctly?

Any idea or suggestions were to start. The so called WATER DR tried selling me a new 3500 dollar unit.

 

[Bannerman]

We'll need more information pertaining to your specific installation. Default settings are not usually suitable as many of the settings need to be appropriate for your water conditions and water usage.

1) Private well or municipal water source?
2) If private well, is there any iron in the water? Any odors? Do you have a current water test report?
3) Number of home residents? (to estimate your water consumption)
4) Assuming the 16 grains was from a sample obtained before the softener? Please confirm.
5) The size of your softener in total grains capacity (ie: 32,000 grains, 48,000 grains, etc) or the number of cubic feet of resin? If you don't know, measure the diameter and height of the tank containing the resin.
6) What is the BLFC number? Should be indicated on a label usually located close to the brine line connection.
7) What are the current program settings in the Fleck 7000 control head? As you changed the hardness setting, it appears you know how to access the various settings.
8) Are any other water treatment devices being utilized?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jonboy5660]

We'll need more information pertaining to your specific installation. Default settings are not usually suitable as many of the settings need to be appropriate for your water conditions and water usage.

1) Private well or municipal water source?
2) If private well, is there any iron in the water? Any odors? Do you have a current water test report?
3) Number of home residents? (to estimate your water consumption)
4) Assuming the 16 grains was from a sample obtained before the softener? Please confirm.
5) The size of your softener in total grains capacity (ie: 32,000 grains, 48,000 grains, etc) or the number of cubic feet of resin? If you don't know, measure the diameter and height of the tank containing the resin.
6) What is the BLFC number? Should be indicated on a label usually located close to the brine line connection.
7) What are the current program settings in the Fleck 7000 control head? As you changed the hardness setting, it appears you know how to access the various settings.
8) Are any other water treatment devices being utilized?

THANK YOU FOR YOUR QUICK RESPONSE. AND HELP!!

5.20.16 HACH 5B test results
- Before softener 16 grains/gallons
- After water softener (softened water) 6 grains/gallons
OK. HERE IS THE INFO THAT YOU REQUESTED
1) We are on a municipal water source
2) No noticeable odors, test results from my Hach 5B as of today 5.20.16
3) There are two residents
4) Got my HACH test kit in the mail today results are above.
5) I dont know what size capacity my softener is but it is 48" tall and 9" wide
6)- BLFC: 0.25 GPM
- DLFC: 2.4 GPM
- Injector: 0
- Piston: High flow
7) Current program in the Fleck 7000 control head
- Display format : GALLONS
- Regenerant flow: Down flow
- Regeneration type: Meter delay
- system capacity: 20 gallon format
- Feed water harness: 17 grains/gallon
-Regeneration time: 200am
-Regeneration day override: 15
-Regeneration cycle step program:
*backwash: 10 mins
*brine/slow rinse: 60 mins
*2nd back wash: 5 mins
*rapid rinse: 10 mins
*brine refill:12 mins
-Flow meter size : 82
-Safety factor: 0%

these are all my settings, i currently dont have a sediment filter i am looking into install one in the near future. i have a R/O installed in to kitchen. thank yous for your help and knowledge. much appreciated

 

[Bannerman]

A 9" X 48" tank is the usual size for 1 cuft of resin. A 1 cuft softener is typically marketed as a 32,000 grain unit.

The system's programmed capacity should be in grains so I expect your current setting of "20 gallons", is actually 20,000 grains. This is the maximum softening capacity to be utilized to initiate a regeneration cycle.

To restore (regenerate) 20K grains capacity in a 1 cuft unit would require 6 lbs of salt which is a very efficient salt setting as it provides a maximum of 3,333 grains per pound of salt.

Your current programmed salt setting is 12 minutes (brine refill) X 0.25 BLFC = 3 gallons refill water X 3 lbs salt/gallon = 9 lbs. You are actually regenerating more capacity than is being utilized between regeneration cycles.

As the softener had operated without an adequate amount of salt, the total capacity (ie: 32K) had been exhausted. I suspect the 6 gpg leaking through the softener is a result of unregenerated capacity remaining in the softener due to the exhaustion. I expect that once the total capacity has been restored, the water exiting the softener will be 0 or 1 gpg as is normally expected.

To regenerate all 32K capacity would reguire 18 lbs of salt. As there is already 9 lbs of salt brine prepared for the next regeneration cycle, you could use a bucket to manually add an additional 3 gallons of water to the brine tank, wait 2.5-3 hours for the appropriate amount of salt to dissolve and then initiate a manual regeneration cycle. This could be done before going to bed as everything appears to be working properly so there is no need to observe the various cycles.

Prior to performing the manual regen cycle, you could reduce the brine refill time to 8 minutes as that will then refill the brine tank with 2 gallons of water which will dissolve 6 lbs of salt for subsequent regeneration cycles. Leaving the hardness setting as 17 is OK as that will force the controller to regnerate slightly sooner than when programmed as 16.

Since the programmed capacity may be consumed part way through the day but as regeneration will not occur until 2am the following morning, a Safety Factor (reserve) should be programmed. This typically is set for a max of 1 day of expected consumption. 2 people using 60 gallons/person/day (estimated) X 16 gpg = 1920 grains required/day. With a programmed capacity of 20K grains, a 10% safety factor should be programmed as that will provide a 1 day reserve.

I expect your water is visually clean. As such, a sediment filter should not be required prior to the softener. Any sediment that does happen to enter the softener, will be backwashed out during each regeneration cycle.

 

[Jonboy5660]

A 9" X 48" tank is the usual size for 1 cuft of resin. A 1 cuft softener is typically marketed as a 32,000 grain unit.

The system's programmed capacity should be in grains so I expect your current setting of "20 gallons", is actually 20,000 grains. This is the maximum softening capacity to be utilized to initiate a regeneration cycle.

To restore (regenerate) 20K grains capacity in a 1 cuft unit would require 6 lbs of salt which is a very efficient salt setting as it provides a maximum of 3,333 grains per pound of salt.

Your current programmed salt setting is 12 minutes (brine refill) X 0.25 BLFC = 3 gallons refill water X 3 lbs salt/gallon = 9 lbs. You are actually regenerating more capacity than is being utilized between regeneration cycles.

As the softener had operated without an adequate amount of salt, the total capacity (ie: 32K) had been exhausted. I suspect the 6 gpg leaking through the softener is a result of unregenerated capacity remaining in the softener due to the exhaustion. I expect that once the total capacity has been restored, the water exiting the softener will be 0 or 1 gpg as is normally expected.

To regenerate all 32K capacity would reguire 18 lbs of salt. As there is already 9 lbs of salt brine prepared for the next regeneration cycle, you could use a bucket to manually add an additional 3 gallons of water to the brine tank, wait 2.5-3 hours for the appropriate amount of salt to dissolve and then initiate a manual regeneration cycle. This could be done before going to bed as everything appears to be working properly so there is no need to observe the various cycles.

Prior to performing the manual regen cycle, you could reduce the brine refill time to 8 minutes as that will then refill the brine tank with 2 gallons of water which will dissolve 6 lbs of salt for subsequent regeneration cycles. Leaving the hardness setting as 17 is OK as that will force the controller to regnerate slightly sooner than when programmed as 16.

Since the programmed capacity may be consumed part way through the day but as regeneration will not occur until 2am the following morning, a Safety Factor (reserve) should be programmed. This typically is set for a max of 1 day of expected consumption. 2 people using 60 gallons/person/day (estimated) X 16 gpg = 1920 grains required/day. With a programmed capacity of 20K grains, a 10% safety factor should be programmed as that will provide a 1 day reserve.

I expect your water is visually clean. As such, a sediment filter should not be required prior to the softener. Any sediment that does happen to enter the softener, will be backwashed out during each regeneration cycle.

THANK YOU for all the info I will make these adjustmentsites and report back with new test results if everything is working properly...

 

[Jonboy5660]

So if I change my brine refill to 8 mins before the manual regeneration do I switch it back to 12 after its finished ?

 

[Reach4]

Raise, not lower, BF after your big catch-up regeneration. (Edited because I missed the BLFC, which Bannerman noted)

I would go to these after that next regen-- particularly BF=16 if C=20:

System info (not programmed) salt lb/cuft : 6
BLFC : 0.125 0.25
cubic ft resin : 1.0
Raw hardness : 17.0
Estimated gal/day : 120.0
Estimated days each regen : 8.9

Fleck 7000SXT Settings:
DF = Gal
VT = dF2b
CT = Fd
C = 20.0
H = 17.0
RS = cr
CR = 0.0
DO = 28
RT = 2:00
B1 = 8.0
Bd = 60.0
B2 = 5.0
RR = 10.0
BF = 16 8
FM = (record what is there)

Most numbers above have some leeway.

If you want to use 8 pound/cuft of salt, you could go to C=24.0 and BF=22 11. That uses a tad more salt, and lets you go a little longer between regens.

 

[Bannerman]

So if I change my brine refill to 8 mins before the manual regeneration do I switch it back to 12 after its finished ?

As previously explained, to restore 20K grains of programmed capacity in your 1 cuft softener, only 6 lbs of salt will be required each regeneration cycle. As you stated that your BLFC rating is 0.25 gpm, an 8 minute brine fill time will place 2 gallons of water back into the brine tank. Each gallon will dissolve 3 lbs of salt.

A 12 minute brine fill time will result in 3 gallons entering the brine tank so 9 lbs of salt would be dissolved when only 6 lbs is needed.

If you wanted additional usable capacity, an 11 minute brine fill time would dissolve 8 lbs of salt which would be appropriate to restore 24K of programmed capacity. With that setting, the salt efficiency would then be approx 3000 grains/lb max.

 

[Jonboy5660]

After my settings are changed how soon should I notice a difference in my water ? Right after a manual regeneration or after 2 or 3 regenerations?

 

[Reach4]

After my settings are changed how soon should I notice a difference in my water ? Right after a manual regeneration or after 2 or 3 regenerations?

The water coming right out of the softener should be different almost immediately after the big extra-salt regen.

There are still a few gallons water in the pipes that will need to be displaced. You will notice a change in the hot water later than with the cold due to the big storage.

 

[Jonboy5660]

I tested my water after I did the big extra salt regen and adjusted my brine fill time to 8 minutes. My hot water is the only thing plumbed into my soft water my hardness level is now at 3 gpg. It was at 6 before the big extra salt regen. Any suggestions on getting it to drop to zer0?
Thank you

 

[Reach4]

I tested my water after I did the big extra salt regen and adjusted my brine fill time to 8 minutes. My hot water is the only thing plumbed into my soft water my hardness level is now at 3 gpg. It was at 6 before the big extra salt regen. Any suggestions on getting it to drop to zer0?
Thank you

Drain the WH. Then refill slowly. That will get rid of most of the stored harder water.

While you are at it, you could take the opportunity to flush your WH. Flushing is more than draining, but it can be as simple as turn off water, drain, turn on water full briefly, repeat a few times. You are trying to make turbulence against the bottom to wash out any loose solids.

Or just give it time for the harder water to get displaced. Because of mixing, that can take a while.

 

[Bannerman]

When water is hard, some hardness will precipitate out and collect as scale on the inner surfaces of a water heater, heaviest on the hottest areas. If you ever looked into an electric kettle which is routinely used for heating hard water, scale will be most obvious on the heating element.

As that hardness scale will be slowly dissolved by softened water, the dissolved minerals will somewhat raise the hardness level of the water exiting the water heater until the scale is eventually no longer remaining. Even with flushing, depending on the amount of scale in your heater, it could take some time before the hardness exiting is equal to the hardness level of the water entering the heater.

By softening only the water heater feed, you are not obtaining the full benefits of a water softener as it is unlikely that 100% hot water is being used for bathing and laundry washing. Softened water to the toilets and sinks will also make cleaning those fixtures easier and less time consuming and will also reduce the potential for scaling in your cold water distribution lines.

 

[Jonboy5660]

Well I only assume my hot hot water is only softened because it test at 3 gpg and my cold water test at 16 gpg. But I believe this house was plumbed when is was built in 2007 aka a soft water loop. I don't know what a soft water loop in tales. Or if it's suppose to do cold water too... and this water softener was already plumbed in when we bought it a few months ago. Thank you both for all your help thus far

 

[Bannerman]

I don't know what is meant by a soft water loop.

Where are you obtaining your cold water test sample? Some homes are plumbed so that cold water at the kitchen sink and outdoor faucets remain un-softened. Try obtaining a sample from another fixture such as from the bathroom sink.