Oversized softener chewing through salt, can I adjust the settings or am I out of luck? 80,000 grain 5600sxt

[Deanbraim]

Hey everyone.

My house has a softener that I know was purchased over side because it’s 80,000 grain for a 3 person house. The thing mows through salt, can I adjust the settings to save on salt as much as possible? Hardness of the water at the house is 15. We use well water and have a lot of iron. The water is pretty awful 765ppm.

The company told me to set DO to 5 but everywhere I am reading that seems very low. I don’t quite understand the settings

RC was set at 150

H is 30

C is at 64

BW is 10

BD is 60

RR is 10

BF is 8

FM is PO.7

PF is 5.2

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

you are going to have to post a picture of the control.... and explain what the letters mean
I have only a vague idea what you are talking about

but from the first numbers the hardness appears to be set at 30 which is a very, very hard setting
do a hardness test and i be that can probably be geared down to at least 20...
or less depending on your local water hardness

C probably stands for capacity which looks good at 64 which is about right for a 80,000 grain unit

RC might be pounds of salt which can be geared down to 15. lbs or less..

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Bannerman]

Using a water softener to remove iron, is not an efficient iron reduction method as each 1ppm iron (or manganese) will consume 85 ppm (5 grains per gallon) of hardness reduction capacity, in addition to the capacity utilized for the actual hardness to be removed. Unless the amount of iron is less than 1ppm and the amount of manganese is very low, a dedicated iron reduction system is typically recommended and will perform more efficiently. Stating 'alot' of iron is not a specific amount so post the most recent lab report for your raw well water.

The Reserve Capacity setting is not lbs of salt, but is to equal the average quantity (gallons) of soft water your family normally utilizes in 24-hours.

80,000 grains total capacity will signify your softener contains 2.5 cubic feet (ft3) of resin as each 1 ft3 resin has 32K grains total capacity.

To regenerate 24,000 grains usable Capacity in 1 ft3 resin will require 8 lbs salt, thereby resulting in 3,000 grains per lb efficiency, so, to regenerate 60,000 grains Capacity in 2.5 ft3 will require 20 lbs salt to achieve the same 3,000 gr/lb efficiency.

To regenerate 64,000 grains Capacity will require approx 25 lbs salt, thereby lowering efficiency to 2,560 grains/lb.

Increased efficiency comes with a cost due to increased hardness leakage through the resin which will lower the soft water quality as well as increase the regeneration frequency due to lower useable capacity.

While 8 lbs salt per ft3 resin is the usual recommendation to achieve the best balance of efficiency, capacity and water quality, some choose for higher efficiency and so will program 6 lbs/ft3 (15 lbs salt total) to regenerate 52,500 grains capacity in 2.5 ft3 resin, with somewhat higher hardness than the 8 lb/ft3 salt amount. Less than 6 lbs/ft3 is usually not recommended due to excessive hardness leakage through the resin.

Since iron reduction with a softener usually requires regeneration at least weekly, you might choose the 15lb/52,500 setting, and program the Days Override setting to 7-days so that regeneration will occur at least every 7-days if the flow meter does not initiate regeneration based on soft water usage prior to 7-days.

If your 5600SXT is equipped with a 0.5 GPM BLFC (brine line flow control) flow restrictor, the current 8-minute Brine Fill setting X 0.5 gpm BLFC will signify 4-gallons water will enter the brine tank each cycle, which is sufficient to dissolve 12 lbs salt which is insufficient to regenerate either 60K or 52.5K Capacity. The BLFC flow rate will be usually specified on a label located nearby to the brine line connection.

If your softener is actually equipped with a 1 GPM BLFC, then the 8-minute BF setting will result in 24 lbs salt being dissolved, in which case, the BF setting may be reduced so as to equal the appropriate amount of salt needed to regenerate your choice of either 60K or 52.5K Capacity.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

Using a water softener to remove iron, is not an efficient iron reduction method as each 1ppm iron (or manganese) will consume 85 ppm (5 grains per gallon) of hardness reduction capacity, in addition to the capacity utilized for the actual hardness to be removed. Unless the amount of iron is less than 1ppm and the amount of manganese is very low, a dedicated iron reduction system is typically recommended and will perform more efficiently. Stating 'alot' of iron is not a specific amount so post the most recent lab report for your raw well water.

Thanks for the info,

It makes me wonder how much iron this fellow has in his water and how hard the water is

 

[WorthFlorida]

Too many rely on a water softener as a primary iron remover and salesman will emphasis it. It just doesn't cut it. When I worked at Sears, a lot of water softeners were sold. Customers would come into the store ticked off that they still had iron staining after spending hundreds of dollars (1990's) on a softener. S. Florida has fairly soft water.

 

[Reach4]

Hey everyone.

My house has a softener that I know was purchased over side because it’s 80,000 grain for a 3 person house. The thing mows through salt, can I adjust the settings to save on salt as much as possible? Hardness of the water at the house is 15. We use well water and have a lot of iron. The water is pretty awful 765ppm.

The company told me to set DO to 5 but everywhere I am reading that seems very low. I don’t quite understand the settings. DO is low, and DO=5 would only be used with very high iron levels.

RC was set at 150

What is the DO setting? 5?

When you say 765 ppm, is that a number from a TDS meter, or is that from a water report.
When you say you have hardness 15 grains/gallon, how did you get that number? Test strips are not so good, and the Hach 5-B test is good.

You really should get a lab water test to measure hardness, iron, manganese. Those are the biggies, but the lab water test usually adds a few more.

If you have a lot of iron that you are trying to remove with a softener, you should do some stuff to give the resin some help. I would layer in maybe a cup of Iron Out powder every 40 pound bag of salt. You can also do a batch treatment. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....r-and-reddish-water-after-regeneration.97324/ #3 gets into a batch treatment.

If you have 1 ppm of iron, that will still seem like a lot. My 0.4 ppm seems like a lot; I have an iron+H2S backwashing filter before the softener. Tentatively, I will hypothesize 1 ppm for you.
So this is a tentative suggestion:
System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft = 6 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
BLFC = 0.5 ; Brine Refill rate GPM
cubic ft resin = 2.5 ; ft3 resin = (nominal grains)/32,000
Compensated hardness = 22 ; including any compensation
People = 3 ; gallons affects reserve calc
Estimated gal/day = 180 ; 60 gal per person typical calc
Estimated days/regen = 12.63 ; Computed days including reserve

Fleck 5600SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = dF1b ; Downflw/, Single Backwash, black cam
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
NT = 1 ; Number of tanks
C = 50.0 ; capacity in 1000 grains
H = 22 ; Hardness-- compensate if needed
RS = rc ; rc says use gallons vs percent
RC = 180 ; Reserve capacity gallons
DO = 14 ; Day Override (28 if no iron)
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
BW = 5 ; Backwash (minutes)
Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes
RR = 5 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
BF = 10 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = P0.7 ; https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/img_fleck5600sxt_flow-png.31592/

 

[Reach4]

RC might be pounds of salt which can be geared down to 15. lbs or less..

RC is reserve capacity in gallons. Deanbraim is estimating 50 gallons per person per day.

The initial gallons shown on the display after a regen will be C/H-(RC). Then once that counts down to zero, the softener regens when 2am (default) rolls around.

 

[Eric Wesson]

Relying on a softener to remove iron is foolish.

Phosphoric acid (ResCare) is cheap; you just have to remember to use it regularly.

 

[Reach4]

Relying on a softener to remove iron is foolish.

Phosphoric acid (ResCare) is cheap; you just have to remember to use it regularly.

I think it is a matter of how much iron, and if there is something else to deal with such as H2S. I think 0.4 ppm without significant H2S can be handled by softener quite easily.

A Res Care or Res-Up dispenser with a wick will typically deliver 1 ounce per day. That would go through a 64 ounce bottle in as many days. Mixing 1/4 cup of Iron Out to each 40 pound bag of salt I expect is cheaper. I don't know how many cups there are in an Iron Out® Rust Stain Remover - 152 oz. (around $24 at Menards, https://www.farmandfleet.com/products/235508-iron-out-rust-stain-remover.html?bvstate=pg:3/ct:r), but I might figure that out one of these days.

I had previously suggested to add 1 cup of Iron Out per bag of salt, but I think I was too high with that. I have seen recommendations of 1/4 cup and one capful. Iron Out does have a smell that you will pick up as you pour or sniff inside the brine tank. Phosphoric acid (such as Res-Up and Res Care do not have a smell. I do suspect the Iron Out Powder gives more bang to the buck.

 

[Eric Wesson]

I think it is a matter of how much iron, and if there is something else to deal with such as H2S. I think 0.4 ppm without significant H2S can be handled by softener quite easily.

A Res Care or Res-Up dispenser with a wick will typically deliver 1 ounce per day. That would go through a 64 ounce bottle in as many days. Mixing 1/4 cup of Iron Out to each 40 pound bag of salt I expect is cheaper. I don't know how many cups there are in an Iron Out® Rust Stain Remover - 152 oz. (around $24 at Menards, https://www.farmandfleet.com/products/235508-iron-out-rust-stain-remover.html?bvstate=pg:3/ct:r), but I might figure that out one of these days.

I had previously suggested to add 1 cup of Iron Out per bag of salt, but I think I was too high with that. I have seen recommendations of 1/4 cup and one capful. Iron Out does have a smell that you will pick up as you pour or sniff inside the brine tank. Phosphoric acid (such as Res-Up and Res Care do not have a smell. I do suspect the Iron Out Powder gives more bang to the buck.

You are right; sodium has some ability to dislodge the iron from the resin, but I have the feeling it generally tends to accumulate over time. There is no single cutoff point, but obviously with very low iron and a lot of salt, the resin would stay clear.

I think you could use pretty much any acid you want to clear the resin. I believe they use phosphoric acid because it is a commonly used food acid (e.g. in Coke!). Vinegar, citric acid, and hydrochloric acid should work too. But I am even lazier than you and am not inclined to research the chemistry, especially considering how the bottles of phosphoric acid just aren't that expensive. Amazon has Res-Up, $30 a gallon:

https://www.amazon.com/Res-Up-Water-Softener-Cleaner-Gallon/dp/B076HW7P1H

That's a dollar per half-cup treatment.

If the Iron-Out people are using in softener tanks is the same stuff as the cleaning product, it is not an acid but rather: sodium hydrosulfite, sodium metabisulfite, sodium carbonate. These are cleaning products that are safer to handle than acids, but they stink as you observed. I wouldn't use them, but I'm a guy that uses Lysol toilet bowl cleaner (10% HCl) on hard water spots.

For what it's worth, I bet the reason cleaners like Iron Out work is because the iron oxidizes after it sticks to the resin. The iron oxide is no longer an ion, so it isn't stuck by charge, but as anyone who has scrubbed rust stains knows, they're mighty sticky.

 

[Eric Wesson]

By the way, my well water has 350 ppm iron, and the softener is after the carbon filter, so there's no H2S. There is a five micron prefilter, also, removing quite a bit of rust particles. My 1 cf of softener resin started to get fouled after about three years.

However, I set the softener up to maximize salt efficiency; I'm literally only using about one bag of salt per year, with two users for a year and then two years with only one user. So I'm not using much water but I'm really not using much salt. The resin does get fouled.