Out with Kohler Cimarron, in with Toto Ultramax II or Drake II

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by psale, Jun 18, 2017.

  1. psale

    psale New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Location:
    Santa Monica, CA
    I have a poor flushing 1.6 GPF Kohler Cimarron k-4634 with the old style flapper valve assembly in my Master bathroom. Like I said, this Kohler is a bad flusher and clogs 2 or 3 times per month. I have decided to replace it with a Toto.

    I also have a Toto Drake II (at least I think it’s a Drake II) two piece (ST454E) toilet in the downstairs guest bathroom. It flushes quite nicely and I have never had any sort of problem with it. (Of course, the Toto in the guest bathroom does not get anywhere near as much use as does the Kohler in the master bath.) So, for the upstairs Master Bath, I’m thinking of installing either another Drake II, two piece, or perhaps a Toto Ultramax II, one-piece toilet. I like the appearance of the TOTO Ultramax II a little better than the look of the Drake II, but I like the MAP score (800 grams) of the Drake II more than the MAP score (500 grams) of the one-piece Ultramax II.

    I am not concerned that the one-piece UltraMax II weighs more than the two-piece Drake II. I am not concerned about saving water. In fact, if I could and doing so would improve flushing, I would rather purchase a 1.6 GPF rather than a 1.28 GPF Toto. I definitely want the sana gloss finish. I would also like to have the ability at some future date of installing a “Bidet Seat.” After reading some “damaged in shipping” horror stories on this forum, I’m not sure where I will purchase said new toilet. I did find a Toto Drake II (two-Piece)with sana gloss and a TOTO MS604114CEFG#11 Ultramax II Het Double Cyclone One-piece Elongated Toilet with Sanagloss at http://tinyurl.com/yaoatqo4 and http://tinyurl.com/ydaxjnp5, respectively. All that said, any advice or suggestions that might assist me to make a decision will be appreciated.
     
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Most of the time I'm selling TOTO in the Cotton White. Sometimes the colonial.
    The standard height CST744SG Drake uses the 1.28 bowl and can use either the 1.6 S tank or the 1.28 E tank.
    Your Drake II is the E tank at 1.28
    For more water usage on any of these, it's just a matter of holding handle for a moment instead of the quick release that gets you the dialed in amount. Trapways are the same and performance for all pratical purposes is the same.
     
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  4. psale

    psale New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Location:
    Santa Monica, CA
    Terry,
    1. How are you able to determine which tank my Drake II is using?
    2. Is it still possible to purchase a "new" 1.6 GPF UltraMax II?
    3. I measured to the top of my Drake's seat, and its 17". It's quite a comfortable seat height for me, so I think I would need to get an ADA height?
     
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    ST454E is the 1.28 gallon tank. They also make the ST453U tank which is 1 gallon.
    There never was a 1.6 Drake II.
    The F in the MS454CEFG is for the tall height. 16-1/8" before the seat is added.
    E = 1.28 gallons
     
  6. EricE

    EricE New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2017
    Location:
    Northern VA
    My parents had two Kohler Cimarron's that performed horribly (they didn't listen to me about Toto - oh well). My mom did some checking and complaining to Kohler and I'm not sure if there was a recall or she was just really persistent, but apparently they had redesigned them and Kohler agreed to replace them for free. The newer toilets perform a lot better. They have significantly more water in the bowl than Toto which I do like, and seem to flush just as good as my Toto Aquia. I'll see how they compare to the Toto Vespin since I just ordered two for my upstairs bathrooms (I was on the site here to validate the model I was looking for - Terry's site is an awesome resource indeed).

    This all happened about 3 years ago so if your's are older than that it might be worth looking into.
     
  7. psale

    psale New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Location:
    Santa Monica, CA
    Eric,
    My Kohler is between 5 and 10 years old. I purchased and moved into this home 5 years ago, and the problematic Kohler toilet was present but not new at that time. That said, I am very soured on Kohler, and "want" a Toto to replace it. After my "discussions" with Terry, I am leaning strongly in favor of a Toto UltraMax II in Cotton White, which can be viewed at either https://terrylove.biz/toilets/10-toto-ultramax-ii.html
    or at http://tinyurl.com/y9wp5lcn (HDepot).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2017
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