Opinions on short copper stubout life?

[JohnCT]

On this YouTube video, an experience repiper said he doesn't use copper stubouts anymore in PEX repipe jobs because they last as little as 8 years.

Youtube

Anyone else experience this? Is he talking about just the stubouts or is he talking about copper in general, or is he full of beans?

John

 

[Fitter30]

I tried to contact copper.org to ask their opinion but the contact site was down for maintenance. 8.7 million tons of copper is recycled yearly according to this site with no loss of performance. Could there be a problem because their using thinner copper ? They make DWV which is thinner. Will have to compare next time in a supply house but DWV for drains have been around for 40 years. It would of been nice if he showed where they were failing. Seen many of corroded pipe that the pipe hadn't failed it was solder joint.

Copper Recycling - Copper Alliance

The Importance of Recycling During the past decade, strong growth in emerging economies, coupled with an increased use of copper for innovative and clean energy technologies, has led to significantly higher copper demand. The recovery and recycling of copper helps to satisfy this demand and to...

copperalliance.org

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Sylvan]

According to the copper development association in NYC I read their bulletin in the 1970's

Copper tubing can fail from excessive velocity especially if the hot water over 4 FPS and CW it is suggested 8 FPS max

It also can fail depending on the water supply too acidic for example.

I have seen thin wall copper failures from erosion such as DWV and M tubing

Also some installers use an acid type flux for self cleaning and if is it not removed after soldering it will cause joint failure

I had the opportunity to go back to some of the jobs I did in 1969-1970's and the copper tubing Type L is still in perfect working
order

Official Site of Copper Development Association, Inc. (USA)

The Copper Development Association Inc. (CDA) is the market development, engineering and information services arm of the copper industry, chartered to enhance and expand markets for copper and its alloys in North America. CDA's website is an excellent resource for information about copper...

www.copper.org

 

[John Gayewski]

This stub outs are pretty thick. Even though copper life is extremely dependant on water quality. If your water isn't compatible with copper than the thickness is just a matter of timing to failure. We use the stub outs all the time and for about everything. Our water has good compatibility with copper. It can be different literally anywhere you go.

 

[JohnCT]

This stub outs are pretty thick. Even though copper life is extremely dependant on water quality. If your water isn't compatible with copper than the thickness is just a matter of timing to failure. We use the stub outs all the time and for about everything. Our water has good compatibility with copper. It can be different literally anywhere you go.

I realize this guy is trying to either sell a service or justify why he uses PEX stubouts (which I personally hate) instead of rigid. If he's repiping due to low pH water, then sure, copper stub outs won't last any longer than the copper pipe it connects to, but he didn't clarify.

John

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

we've been installing copper stub outs for well over 8 years and have Never seen one fail. I've pulled tonnes of stops and the only time I've seen a worn out stub out was from an ice cream scoop wash that runs continuously and that was likely from normal typle M copper prior to the premade stub out ells. I think he's full of BS.

 

[Terry]

I started plumbing in 1974 with copper. Just installed a Bosch dishwasher in a 1971 condo for Pamela. No issues with copper where I'm at.

 

[Mr tee]

The only problems I ever had with copper stub outs was once in a while changing angle stops. Still, I like to use brass nipples.

 

[Jeff H Young]

well CDA isn't going to tell us to go plastic. Going plastic is cheaper , eliminates a joint in the work those are advantages my opinion. Disadvantages of PEX they look crappy , stick out the wall crooked, I think a bit prone to possible damage I don't like the connections for anglestops or any sort of equipment looks crappy . sort of pet peeve . but I cant argue those 2 advantages cheap and saves a joint.
My house has PEX stubs with standard compression stubs I hate them . unless those stubouts are manufactured poorly they shouldn't fail in 8 years a soldered 90 stub out should last 40 to 60 years on average if not more so why those with a PEX end should last that long unless they just cant make them right.
the threaded nipples are great but too expensive the material and the labor is too much .
I think the copper stubs will die before too long in most homebuilding

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

I started plumbing in 1974 with copper. Just installed a Bosch dishwasher in a 1971 condo for Pamela. No issues with copper where I'm at.

Terry, There is a housing development I did some remodel work in the Kingsgate area and found that the copper tubing in 2 of the homes we worked in had the thinnest copper I'd ever seen! It would deform out of round when trying to cut it with a tubing cutter. I don't think it was worn out either, just manufactured really thinly. I ran into those probably in the late 90's early Y2Ks. I just went and looked at the house on Google street view and they look like the split level homes typically built in the area in the mid to late 70s.. Would be really interesting to see how those homes copper systems are fairing now.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Good point by Tuttles poor material I used to hear a lot about Chinese cast iron that would crush with snap cutters no UPC stamp Even met a guy that was instrumental in Importing it , Chinese drywall that was junk, Mexican copper that was bad and not approved.
But good mainstream material PEX or copper stubs shouldn't, and my opinion don't fail they have some advantages back and forth but they are both safe to me

 

[Mr tee]

well CDA isn't going to tell us to go plastic. Going plastic is cheaper , eliminates a joint in the work those are advantages my opinion. Disadvantages of PEX they look crappy , stick out the wall crooked, I think a bit prone to possible damage I don't like the connections for anglestops or any sort of equipment looks crappy . sort of pet peeve . but I cant argue those 2 advantages cheap and saves a joint.
My house has PEX stubs with standard compression stubs I hate them . unless those stubouts are manufactured poorly they shouldn't fail in 8 years a soldered 90 stub out should last 40 to 60 years on average if not more so why those with a PEX end should last that long unless they just cant make them right.
the threaded nipples are great but too expensive the material and the labor is too much .
I think the copper stubs will die before too long in most homebuilding

As for the price of a brass nipple, it depends on if you are buying 5 or 500 . I don't see how threading a nipple into a DE90 is more labor intensive than soldering in a stub. I realize I am in the minority when it comes to using brass nipples.

 

[Jeff H Young]

As for the price of a brass nipple, it depends on if you are buying 5 or 500 . I don't see how threading a nipple into a DE90 is more labor intensive than soldering in a stub. I realize I am in the minority when it comes to using brass nipples.

Far far more pricey i mean if you are doing a kitchen and are a service company charging a thousand or 2 to move some stub outs a foot or 2 no big deal but building an apartment complex or competitively doing tract homes here in Southern CA. you aren't going to screw nipples in and then come back to set finish with a nipple tray and pipe wrenches under every sink . I don't see screwed nipples maybe that's how its done in Montana but never done that way in 50 years here unless its old galvanized or institutional school court house , hospital. Yes you are a far minority but I'd like to do it your way too I'm not going to though You probably do some nice work and have the clientele that will pay

 

[Jeff H Young]

On this YouTube video, an experience repiper said he doesn't use copper stubouts anymore in PEX repipe jobs because they last as little as 8 years.

Youtube

Anyone else experience this? Is he talking about just the stubouts or is he talking about copper in general, or is he full of beans?

John

I got a little offtrack but yea I think this guy is full of beans He also is pushing PEX B Zurn for expansion says its the most superior way to pipe a house .
I can't figure why he saying this stuff I'm not buying it

 

[Mr tee]

Far far more pricey i mean if you are doing a kitchen and are a service company charging a thousand or 2 to move some stub outs a foot or 2 no big deal but building an apartment complex or competetively doing tract homes here in so ca. you arent going to screw nipples in and then come back to set finish with a nipple tray and pipe wrenches under every sink . I dont see screwed nipples maybe thats how its done in montana but never done that way in 50 years here unless its old galvinized or institutional school court house , hospitol. Yes you are a far minority but Id like to do it your way too Im not going to though You probebly do some nice work and have the clientel that will pay

I'm retired, but that is how I did my house. Brass is better Working on your own place is different than business. Brass nipples would never fly doing plumbing in Montana, but I did it in California back in the day (small projects).
.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Oh yea agree Mr Tee its a nice way to plumb I used to say I'd like to run screwed pipe through out Brass. My Dad had a little rental property in Orange CA built in 49 or 50 it was all brass with Gal fittings Who the heck knows why they did that post war material shortage maybe.
I just think its a bit pricey it seems like a small price but adds up

 

[Sylvan]

I also use a Copper X Female adapter for installing isolation valves with a brass or CP brass nipple

The reason being a lot of so called mechanics do not bother to disassemble a globe valve buring the packing gland or washer .

So installing a FIPS valve makes it easier for replacement and less chance of being damaged