One last check before I pull the pump, advice needed.

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by James Thomas, Aug 12, 2018.

  1. James Thomas

    James Thomas New Member

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    Aug 12, 2018
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    Missouri
    New member here, I've been reading different sites and forums all day, this forum seems the most helpful.

    Anyways, a little back history, well is from the 70s-80s, no known depths, most wells around here are in the mid 300ft to 500ft range. All of the above ground parts are 10 years old.

    About 4 months ago my automatic shutoff failed ON for at least a month, every since then my pressure has been falling, now when I turn the water on it drops down to about 0-5psi, (still enough pressure for one faucet at a time.) When I turn the water back off the pressure jumps right back up to 50psi (was 60psi but it wouldn't pump that high so I turned the cutout down to shorten the run time)

    I just want to make sure that the pump is the problem before I replace.

    As far as pumps go, right now my budget is enough for a red lion RL12G15-3W2V
    Because I dont know the dept of the well and I'm looking at just pulling and replacing same day/weekend. So I just picked their largest pump. Would their be any Ill effects if my well ends up being shallower?

    I was also looking at a company called Schraiber pump, they make one that has about the same performance numbers as the red lion, for a couple hundred cheaper. (They also have great reviews all over on line)
     
  2. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    From 300' or less that pump will work. Over 300' it won't build any pressure. Best to know the pump setting and water level depth before purchasing a pump.
     
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  4. James Thomas

    James Thomas New Member

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    Hmm.. all the specs on this one said 500ft head lift. That's why I picked it.
    I know the pump that is down there now only has a 1hp motor on it(that's what the well company said based off amp ratings they were getting)
    Maybe I'm over estimating my depths.
     
  5. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    For a house, you would probably be better off with a 7 or 10 gpm pump. For a given HP, they have more lift+pressure than a 12 gpm pump.

    That 0 to 5 psi is at the gauge on the pressure tank?

    When you refer to turning the water on or off, do you mean opening a faucet, or do you mean turning the power to the pump on and off?

    If the faucet, try this experiment. If the pressure is at 50, and you turn off power to the pump, does the pressure hold fairly close to 50? If you then use water from the faucet, briefly, the pressure drops. Now turn the faucet back off. Does the pressure come back up considerably? If so, there may be a restriction rather than a pump problem.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  6. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    60 PSI is the same as 138' of head. So to get a pump that will build 60 PSI from 500', the pump would need to be able to produce 638' of head.

    But you also do not want a pump that can produce 638' of head if your well is only 200-300' to water.
     
  7. James Thomas

    James Thomas New Member

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    Yes that 0-5psi is at the pressure tank(which is 3 ft from my well pipe)

    With power ON
    When I turn the faucet on in the well house the pressure drops, but water flows out, and pump kicks on, turn faucet off pressure builds back to 50psi and pump turns off.(builds to 50 in a matter of seconds)

    With power OFF
    Turn faucet on and pressure drops and water stops flowing, turn faucet off and pressure gauge stays at 0. Turn power back on to the pump and pressure builds back to 50psi

    Also I get the same results no matter what faucet I use, be it at the well house, in the fields at the cattle waterers, or in the house)
    And I'm not getting any aeration in the water, if that helps.

    ** note I only have a 1gal pressure tank due to location, will be upgrading to a once I get the new bigger well house build**
     
  8. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    1 gallon pressure tank??? Even with a Cycle Stop Valve we recommend a 4.5 gallon size tank. Gonna be hard to get it to work right with a 1 gallon tank. Probably already a bad tank, as that is lots of cycling. Pump build to 50 and shuts off, sounds like the pump is not the problem.
     
  9. James Thomas

    James Thomas New Member

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    Went and double checked the numbers it's a well-x-tol wx-102, 4.4gal tank. It looked small so I assumed it was a 1gal.
    It holds the 38psi fine, so I figured it was functioning as normal.
    Edit* it is in fact a 4.4 gal tank. I had to look up the dimensions
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  10. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    A 4.4 gallon size pressure tank actually does hold 1 gallon of water. Still no where large enough without a CSV. Even with the correct 38 PSI things happen so fast with a tank that small it is probably not even filling up.
     
  11. James Thomas

    James Thomas New Member

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    I'll have to look when I get home tonight, but I do believe it has a CSV on it right where the pipe comes out of the ground from the pitless adapter.
     
  12. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Then I am guessing it is a 50 PSI CSV, and you need to turn the pressure switch up to 40/60 to make it work as it should.
     
  13. James Thomas

    James Thomas New Member

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    It was set at 40/60, I had to turn it down to 40/50 because the pump would get to a little past 50psi and sit there and run, wouldn't build past 50, to shut off. I turned down the cutoff psi until the pump shut off, which landed at 50psi.
     
  14. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Do you have a ball valve after the pressure tank you can close?
     
  15. James Thomas

    James Thomas New Member

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    If you are talking about a valve between the tank and the system piping no it is just tied right in. I do have valves for each feed line though, (house,shop,fields)
     
  16. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    It sounds like you have more than 1 GPM leaking somewhere in the system. The CSV will just hold 50 PSI constant and never let the tank fill and the pump shut off until you fix the leak. Try just turning off the breaker. If the pressure drops while no water is being used, you have a leak somewhere.
     
  17. James Thomas

    James Thomas New Member

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    Ok I'm home verified i do have a CSV,
    Power to the system has been off for 15 minutes with zero pressure drop. Going to keep the power off for an hour and see where we are on pressure.
     
  18. James Thomas

    James Thomas New Member

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    Also I picked up a 3/4" pipe plug if you wanted me to remove the pressure tank and plug the line, lowes was out of ball valves.
     
  19. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    That was not what he had in mind. The thought was to close the valve after the pressure tank to remove the small chance that there was a leak in the house plumbing that you did not notice. There are some leaks that are not obvious.
     
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  20. James Thomas

    James Thomas New Member

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    Ok went an hour with power off and had zero pressure drop in thesystem.

    I adjusted the cut on/off switch back to cut on a 40psi(couldn't check the cut off because it got to 55psi and set there running) I adjusted the cutoff down to 50psi for the pumps sake.

    Still have the same problem.
    Valves closed pressure will sit at 50psi, as soon as a water faucet opens anywhere the pressure immediately falls to 0-5psi. As soon as the faucet closes the water climbs back to the cut off pressure (50psi)

    **EDIT, I also noticed a little pressure fluttering as it was building it back up from about 15psi to 30psi then it stops.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  21. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Checking the amps might help figure this out, but I am afraid the pump is just worn out. Either that or you have a leak in the pipe prior to a check valve. Either way probably going to have to pull it to see.
     
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