Old toilet flange flush with floor on cast iron

[tom evans]

I had a new section of basement wall poured and am trying to replace the toilet (haven't bought it yet) The flange bolt slots were apparently misaligned in the original installation. The 2 wide slots for inserting the bolts are 12" away from back wall and parallel with the back wall. I removed the old wax ring. Looks like a PVC and brass flange unit over a 4"(?) cast iron drain. It is set flush with the concrete floor.

One of the original toilet bolts just came right out of the flange when lifting the toilet and the second seemed to have a washer to make the 'head' big enough not to come out of the flange slot. I had to pry and bend it into the curl you see for it to come out.

The flange itself seems to be brass and I drilled the round places where it should be attached to the concrete.

It is not being cooperative to come up.
Should this whole thing pop out of the cast iron as one piece?
Does the PVC need to be cut?

I tried to pry under the flange hoping the whole unit would move but stopped in case the PVC lip is holding the flange down. And did not want to destroy it if there is a drop in fix.
Should I do all that work or is there a "drop in" fix for having a new flange to rotate to the right place?

I have seen Danco HydroSeal and also just separate replacement flanges that go over the old one?
I actually have a 4" Push Tite by Sioux Chief. But would have to take out the old brass and PVC thing?
I've seen SO MANY types but don't know which are applicable to my situation.

arrgh!!

thanks for the help
Tommy

 

[Reach4]

Is the ring with the slots PVC or brass?

If PVC, you could put a repair ring or a Danco HydroSeat over the existing flange.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[tom evans]

Is the ring with the slots PVC or brass?

The ring is brass. Could I fasten a new ring over that one?

 

[Reach4]

The ring is brass. Could I fasten a new ring over that one?

Yes, but I don't see a need. If it was plastic, I could see you using a repair ring. But if it is just to raise the ring up above floor level, don't worry about it. People deal with rings 3/8 or more below the surface every day. If using Saniseal, I think they say to use two if the flange is 3/8 or more down. With wax, you use two wax rings -- one with a plastic horn.

 

[tom evans]

YBut if it is just to raise the ring up above floor level, don't worry about it. .

hmmm, no, I'm not trying to raise the ring. Although, if the fix is as easy as finding a good ring and affixing it over the old, then I'm up for that.

The problem is the slots for the bolts to the toilet. When the toilet is set down in place, the bolts would be in the wide areas and NOT 'lock' in the narrower sections.

Look at the first picture. This toilet has had the water turned off for years and not used... but we do need it now.
Maybe my title should have said "Misaligned Flange Ring"
Sorry for the confusion.
Thanks.

 

[Reach4]

A stainless steel ring that overlays the existing ring is one way to handle this.
https://www.oatey.com/ASSETS/DOCUMENTS/ITEMS/EN/Stainless Steel Closet Flange Replacement Ring.pdf https://www.lowes.com/pd/Oatey-Stainless-Steel-Ring/50315043
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sioux-Chief-Stainless-Steel-Flange-Repair-Ring-886-MR/202274075

There is another style: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Superior-Tool-SuperRing-Closet-Replacement-Ring-21015/202538331 lets you put the mounting screws outside of the existing ring. It is not stainless steel.

Actually, the Danco Hydroseat may have advantages here. That gets a wax ring below the Hydroseat, and another above. It provides the closet bolts fixed in place, so you carefully orient those before screwing the device to the floor.

I might use Tapcons, but there is advantage to lead anchors and stainless screws: https://terrylove.com/forums/index....bbed-pipe-in-concrete-slab.67859/#post-504203
Stainless steel Tapcon screws would seem to overcome the rust worry: http://www.tapcon.com/products/concrete-screw-anchors/410-stainless-steel-tapcon http://www.homedepot.com/p/Tapcon-3...-Head-Concrete-Anchors-8-Pack-26155/202097027

 

[tom evans]

Ah ha, thanks, Reach4. It is all making sense on what is needed. Thanks for the link about tapcon screws rusting away, I would not have thought of that. My local Lowes does not seem to carry the stainless steel Tapcons.

I am leaning towards the Superior Tool Supering only because of the mounting screws are outside of the existing ring and may be better to get a good fix to the floor. There's no telling how the concrete is under the current ring (closer to the drain pipe), plus I would have to first drill through-holes in the brass and then masonry drill bit for the anchors.

Thanks for all the insight!
Tom

 

[Reach4]

That will work. Note that the legs of the Danco Hydroseat would also be outside of the existing ring.

 

[tom evans]

That will work. Note that the legs of the Danco Hydroseat would also be outside of the existing ring.

Crap, even more confusion. While looking at the instructions on the Hydroseat, I notice #4 - reusing the bolts from old flange? and replacing old flange if broken?

My confusion may come not understanding terminology i.e. flange versus ring. Or what, just ignore step #4, other than placing the wax ring.
Does the wax ring need to have a built in funnel? My sense would say no?
argh!!

 

[Reach4]

That is weird. The Hydroseat has studs that replace the closet bolts. If those instructions are for the Hydroseat, they are in error I think.

The Hydroseat has its own funnel, so I would say no also.

You can form wax rings to another shape if you like. You could mold it around the funnel and shape it to whatever makes sense. It is OK to use your hands, but if you wear nitrile gloves, it makes cleaning your hands easy when done.

If you pull the toilet later, you will only be changing out the wax above the Hydroseat. You could use a waxless seal above the Hydroseat, but I would stick with wax under the Hydroseat.