Old Moen Chateau shower valve question

[MikeKenmore]

First off - I'm working on my first plumbing project ever, so I know very little.

We're remodeling our bathroom. I need to adjust the height and horizontal position of the plumbing to accommodate a larger tub. I'm going to be splicing and soldering some of the existing plumbing, which I feel will be okay and reasonable for me.

My question is the location of the valve. It's an old Moen valve and I'm unable to find instructions on how to install it. Specifically, how far it needs to be set off the face of the wall. We will be using durock and tiling the wall. How far from the studs should this be positioned? I figured I'd ask now while doing the plumbing modification in the event I need to remove the 90 degree bends that curve into the valve as shown in the attached pics.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Jadnashua]

I highly recommend you reconsider reusing an old valve. It is SO much easier to put in a new one (plus, your old one MIGHT not meet current building codes, and the inspector may give you grief, and you'd have to change it afterwards, making double work). Current codes require anti-scald technology. I do not know if yours has that, but it might. Depending on the age, you may not find new trim for your new shower, and the old stuff may not be in all that great shape. A properly done shower can last many decades...and, in the scheme of things, a new valve is inexpensive.

But, if you insist on using the old one, temporarily install the trim, look at where you want the handle to stick out while it is still possible for the trim to be installed, and measure the distance available so you can place your valve where it's needed with the final wall thickness you plan. Note, not all tile is the same thickness, and can vary quite a bit...so, have the tile picked out or risk problems when things don't go together the way you wish. Depending on the tile you use, a nominal 3/16" thinset thickness is probably a good guess, but it could be more or less depending on the tile selected, less if the tile is quite flat and consistent, more if it isn't. Should use choose HardieBacker, it isn't exactly 1/2" thick, either (the others generally are 1/2"), it's slightly thinner.

 

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[MikeKenmore]

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that getting a new valve would be best. the home depot guy saw the old Moen and thought it was a great unit. do you recommend one brand over another (Delta, Moen, etc)? we're not locked into any trim kits yet (which, by the way, wouldn't have worked with the old valve apparently...).

 

[hj]

Yours is NOT a "Moentrol" so it does NOT meet the current codes.

 

[Jadnashua]

Plumbing fixtures are somewhat like cars...are you a Chevy man or a Ford man? I've had good luck with Delta and Grohe, but then, I've not needed to replace all that many since I don't do that for a living. Delta has their R10000 rough-in valve body that is quite flexible in that it can take three different kinds of tub/shower controls:
- single handle pressure balanced ( full on/off of water volume, no control)
- two-handle, volume and temperature
- two-handle, volume and thermostatic control

In a professional supply house, they sell this valve body separately, then, you decide on the trim which also contains the needed cartridge to perform the selected functions. The big-box stores tend to package these in 'kits' with all of the needed parts, but you have LOTS more choices if you piece it together yourself. I think Grohe may now have something similar, but I've not looked into it. I did use the Delta at my mother's. She wanted a volume control, so I got her the 'middle' one in my list above. I'd have preferred a thermostatically controlled version, but she didn't' want that (I have a Grohe thermostatically controlled one in my home). I try to stay away from Kohler stuff...they change their designs so often, repair parts are sometimes very hard to find. Delta and many of the others, have been using similar and interchangeable designs (only within a brand) for years, and you can buy their parts almost anywhere.

 

[Terry]

I'm not surprised the Home Depot guy that it was a great valve in it's day.
I remove them whenever I can now. The new valves are so much nicer. Junk the valve and pick up something pressure balanced.

On the old moen, I would center the valve inlets 1-3/8" from the face of the wood stud. Then you have 1/2" backer board and tile over that.
There was always 1/2" plus or minus to work with.

From a 70's home. I installed hundreds of these back in the day.

 

[MikeKenmore]

thanks for the replies!

We bought the Delta R10000 valve. not sure what trim kit or pieces we'll get, but given the pace I've been progressing with this project, that might be years from now.

Can anyone give some guidance on how to position this particular valve? I know the instructions say the front of the plasterguard should be flush with the finished wall. anyone have a rule of thumb on what this distance is assuming durock + tile? We don't have our tile picked out yet, and I'm not certain how much the thinset will add to the thickness. from what I've read elsewhere, it sounds like I should allot 3/4" total (1/2" for durock and 1/4" for tile + thinset). I will likely be shimming out my studs, too, to allow the durock to drape over the edge of the tub flange, so I will need to add that in as well.

Also, our house (1979 construction) has water hammer issues (dishwasher, washing machine, both showers, kitchen sink). it's definitely exacerbated when water is quickly shut off. so, I'm wondering if I should install a tee at the hot and cold lines at the valve and run 6-8" of pipe up from the tee. or, would it be better to buy an engineered arrestor? we haven't checked the water pressure on the house, but I suspect it's high (100psi ?).

Thanks again!

BTW: Terry, we're neighbors. I live in Kenmore.

 

[Jadnashua]

All tile ends up in various thicknesses, so you need to have selected yours first. Thinset can vary based on the tile and how flat the surface is, but nominally, 3/16" is typical (but may not be what you end up with!). The safest thing is to mock up the wall thickness AND temporarily install the trim as if you have the plaster guard at the finished wall surface, you MIGHT not like how it looks...to many people, the handle and shaft will stick out further than they like. The min/max on the recommendation is to ensure that things FIT, not that you'll like the way it looks. FWIW, there is no quick fix for a valve too far out, and the fix (if available with an extension kit) for being too deep in the wall can leave things less than desirable, too.

So, see if you an decide on the trim, and pick it up, then mock it up, then decide where you want to install it based on the tile and wall construction you plan.