oil boilder advice?

[toddow]

I have a 13 year old Weil McClain oil boiler for hot water heat. It started to leak out of the bottom of the unit a bit ago and my tech guy stopped by.

He said this brand is prone to leaking at the gaskets between the cast iron and suggested it be replaced with a different brand with (I think) push pin connections. He did not open it up to verify, guess that in itself is pretty labor intensive?

I've checked out the warranty and it is pretty much bogus. Can I trust his judgement sight unseen? Is it possible/practical to repair the unit or am I shit out of luck?

FWIW, I like the guy and don't think he was just trying to make a sale.

TIA for any feedback!

Todd

 

[Standardairconditioner]

Water heaters are sealed from the factory assembly. The holding tank itself is unservicable.

Call your 'tech' and ask him if he can open your tank, the answer will be 'no'.

Any repairs a tech can make on it is what is accessable externally, like the fittings, where the water goes in and out, electricals. Sometimes they leak at these areas, and it can be fixed.

You can't open up these things to rebuild the seals like a food blender.

I mean, you can indeed cut it open for fun just to see what was wrong with it, but you won't be putting it back together.

13 years is exceptionally long and above average for a water heater. How long is a water heater supposed to last? Pretty much the manufacturer's warranty. After that, it's statistics on how many fail after that. I've seen them leak during the warranty period. I've seen ones that explode just after an expired warranty. I've seen ones that are 25 yrs old and still working. All up to lady luck.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Dana]

Once they start leaking you're pretty much SOL (unless it's only leaking when it stone-cold off.) It could be repaired, but it's not cost effective to do that on a 13 year old oil-burner.

Don't trust his (or anyone else's) judgement sight unseen- get a second opinion, or even a third. But you're still most likely to be looking at replacement, and probably before the heating season is out.

Now is the perfect opportunity to assess the heat load and right-size the boiler to the load (to the extent possible.) Most boilers equipped with tankless coils are 3-5x oversized for the space heating load, and they have to be idled at a high enough temperature for reasonable hot water performance, the combination of which takes a very significant toll on as-used efficiency, usually 10-15% lower (sometimes more) lower than the name-plate AFUE test. The AFUE test presumes no more than 1.7x oversizing for the load, and return water temps & idling temps that you'll never see if heating hot water with a tankless coil.

Since you have a heating history on this place, you can use fuel use against heating degree-days and the name-plate efficiency of the boiler making the boiler the measuring instrument. To minimize the hot water use and solar gain error in the measurement it's best to use mid to late winter fuel use, not annual fuel use or shoulder-season use. If you have a ZIP code (for weather data and outside design temp) and EXACT fill-up dates and quantities for mid to late winter fill-ups. Alternatively, if you have a regular fill up service that stamps a "K-factor" on the slips, that is the same information in a different format (K-factor= heating degree days per gallon). We'd still need your location to estimate the 99% outside design temperature though.

Other factors useful in specifying the boiler & system is the number of heating zones, and the amount of radiation per zone.

With the new boiler right-sized for the heating load you can either heat hot water with an indirect-fired tank (which has very high hot water heating performance), or a heat pump/hybrid electric hot water heater. The latter would allow you to idle the boiler completely over the summer. With a basement boiler room the HPWH would also dehumidify the basement, turning the heat of vaporization of the basement humidity into heat in the hot water. The recovery times of HPWH solutions are pretty slow compared to an indirect, so it depends on just how much and how you use hot water. (Sometimes simply up-sizing the tank size is good enough for higher volume hot water use.) A heat pump hot water heater takes 2/3 of it's heat from the room it's in, so if it's co-located with the boiler, it harvests the jacket & distribution losses of the boiler, lowering the room temp a couple of degrees, which also lowers the amount of heat leaking out of the basement. It's not a bad solution- a far better solution than a 4x oversized boiler.

 

[Dana]

standardairconditioner: The confusion is probably a dialect difference issue, but in US-speak "boiler" never refers to a hot water heater, only a space-heating boiler. (In the UK and some commonwealth countries it can mean either.)

 

[toddow]

Once they start leaking you're pretty much SOL (unless it's only leaking when it stone-cold off.) It could be repaired, but it's not cost effective to do that on a 13 year old oil-burner.

Don't trust his (or anyone else's) judgement sight unseen- get a second opinion, or even a third. But you're still most likely to be looking at replacement, and probably before the heating season is out.

Now is the perfect opportunity to assess the heat load and right-size the boiler to the load (to the extent possible.) Most boilers equipped with tankless coils are 3-5x oversized for the space heating load, and they have to be idled at a high enough temperature for reasonable hot water performance, the combination of which takes a very significant toll on as-used efficiency, usually 10-15% lower (sometimes more) lower than the name-plate AFUE test. The AFUE test presumes no more than 1.7x oversizing for the load, and return water temps & idling temps that you'll never see if heating hot water with a tankless coil.

Since you have a heating history on this place, you can use fuel use against heating degree-days and the name-plate efficiency of the boiler making the boiler the measuring instrument. To minimize the hot water use and solar gain error in the measurement it's best to use mid to late winter fuel use, not annual fuel use or shoulder-season use. If you have a ZIP code (for weather data and outside design temp) and EXACT fill-up dates and quantities for mid to late winter fill-ups. Alternatively, if you have a regular fill up service that stamps a "K-factor" on the slips, that is the same information in a different format (K-factor= heating degree days per gallon). We'd still need your location to estimate the 99% outside design temperature though.

Other factors useful in specifying the boiler & system is the number of heating zones, and the amount of radiation per zone.

With the new boiler right-sized for the heating load you can either heat hot water with an indirect-fired tank (which has very high hot water heating performance), or a heat pump/hybrid electric hot water heater. The latter would allow you to idle the boiler completely over the summer. With a basement boiler room the HPWH would also dehumidify the basement, turning the heat of vaporization of the basement humidity into heat in the hot water. The recovery times of HPWH solutions are pretty slow compared to an indirect, so it depends on just how much and how you use hot water. (Sometimes simply up-sizing the tank size is good enough for higher volume hot water use.) A heat pump hot water heater takes 2/3 of it's heat from the room it's in, so if it's co-located with the boiler, it harvests the jacket & distribution losses of the boiler, lowering the room temp a couple of degrees, which also lowers the amount of heat leaking out of the basement. It's not a bad solution- a far better solution than a 4x oversized boiler.

 

[toddow]

Water heaters are sealed from the factory assembly. The holding tank itself is unservicable.

Call your 'tech' and ask him if he can open your tank, the answer will be 'no'.

Any repairs a tech can make on it is what is accessable externally, like the fittings, where the water goes in and out, electricals. Sometimes they leak at these areas, and it can be fixed.

You can't open up these things to rebuild the seals like a food blender.

I mean, you can indeed cut it open for fun just to see what was wrong with it, but you won't be putting it back together.

13 years is exceptionally long and above average for a water heater. How long is a water heater supposed to last? Pretty much the manufacturer's warranty. After that, it's statistics on how many fail after that. I've seen them leak during the warranty period. I've seen ones that explode just after an expired warranty. I've seen ones that are 25 yrs old and still working. All up to lady luck.

Very much appreciate your reply. Sorry about the miscommunication, what I'm talking about is a boiler that sends hot water to hydronic baseboards.

 

[toddow]

Once they start leaking you're pretty much SOL (unless it's only leaking when it stone-cold off.) It could be repaired, but it's not cost effective to do that on a 13 year old oil-burner.

Don't trust his (or anyone else's) judgement sight unseen- get a second opinion, or even a third. But you're still most likely to be looking at replacement, and probably before the heating season is out.

Now is the perfect opportunity to assess the heat load and right-size the boiler to the load (to the extent possible.) Most boilers equipped with tankless coils are 3-5x oversized for the space heating load, and they have to be idled at a high enough temperature for reasonable hot water performance, the combination of which takes a very significant toll on as-used efficiency, usually 10-15% lower (sometimes more) lower than the name-plate AFUE test. The AFUE test presumes no more than 1.7x oversizing for the load, and return water temps & idling temps that you'll never see if heating hot water with a tankless coil.

Since you have a heating history on this place, you can use fuel use against heating degree-days and the name-plate efficiency of the boiler making the boiler the measuring instrument. To minimize the hot water use and solar gain error in the measurement it's best to use mid to late winter fuel use, not annual fuel use or shoulder-season use. If you have a ZIP code (for weather data and outside design temp) and EXACT fill-up dates and quantities for mid to late winter fill-ups. Alternatively, if you have a regular fill up service that stamps a "K-factor" on the slips, that is the same information in a different format (K-factor= heating degree days per gallon). We'd still need your location to estimate the 99% outside design temperature though.

Other factors useful in specifying the boiler & system is the number of heating zones, and the amount of radiation per zone.

With the new boiler right-sized for the heating load you can either heat hot water with an indirect-fired tank (which has very high hot water heating performance), or a heat pump/hybrid electric hot water heater. The latter would allow you to idle the boiler completely over the summer. With a basement boiler room the HPWH would also dehumidify the basement, turning the heat of vaporization of the basement humidity into heat in the hot water. The recovery times of HPWH solutions are pretty slow compared to an indirect, so it depends on just how much and how you use hot water. (Sometimes simply up-sizing the tank size is good enough for higher volume hot water use.) A heat pump hot water heater takes 2/3 of it's heat from the room it's in, so if it's co-located with the boiler, it harvests the jacket & distribution losses of the boiler, lowering the room temp a couple of degrees, which also lowers the amount of heat leaking out of the basement. It's not a bad solution- a far better solution than a 4x oversized boiler.