Odors coming from drains after plumbing remodel

[TNHomeowner]

Is there anything with this plumbing set up that would cause a trap to be sucked dry, allowing odor to come up through the bathroom sink drain and/or the bathtub drain?

The plumbing is in order as the pictures are labeled: Left, Center, and Right. The Left picture shows the pipe that comes down from the bathtub. You can see the trap in the picture. The Right picture shows the pipe that comes down from the bathroom sink. The sink trap can be seen in the picture taken of inside the bathroom cabinet. Center picture shows the pipe that comes down from the toilet, which is the pipe in the forefront; the smaller pipe directly behind the toilet pipe is the (1 ¼ in.) vent pipe; the pipe that comes from the left is the pipe coming from the bathtub; and the pipe that comes from the right is the pipe coming from the sink.

All three fixtures (tub, sink and toilet) are vented from the 1 ¼ in. vent pipe.

I would appreciate any insight that anyone could provide to help explain why odors would be coming from the drains after this plumbing remodel. Thank you.

 

[Reach4]

Yes. The most obvious is the sink trap.

Try putting an AAV where that plug is.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[TNHomeowner]

Yes. The most obvious is the sink trap.

Try putting an AAV where that plug is.

Why is the 1 1/4 inch vent not enough to keep the sink trap from going dry?

 

[Smooky]

The "vent" is completely useless as it is located.

 

[Reach4]

Why is the 1 1/4 inch vent not enough to keep the sink trap from going dry?

I don't know where you see a vent. But if you think you see one for the sink, it is not where it needs to be to keep the trap from working as an S trap.

 

[TNHomeowner]

The "vent" is completely useless as it is located.

A master plumber plumbed this for us. He is refusing to fix it because he says there is nothing wrong with it. He does not believe the trap is going dry because he did a peppermint test once he had plumbed everything. He is only willing to listen to his level or above in why his plumbing set up would not be working properly. Is there some type of documentation regarding this matter that I could provide to him? How should it be plumbed? We hired him to re-plumb our vent piping to get rid of any need for studor vents as we were having problems with them under the house with odor coming into the living area. I appreciate your assistance.

 

[TNHomeowner]

I don't know where you see a vent. But if you think you see one for the sink, it is not where it needs to be to keep the trap from working as an S trap.

A master plumber plumbed this for us. He said the sink will draw from the 1 1/4 inch vent. He is refusing to fix it because he says there is nothing wrong with it. He does not believe the trap is going dry because he did a peppermint test once he had plumbed everything. He is only willing to listen to his level or above in why his plumbing set up would not be working properly. Is there some type of documentation regarding this matter that I could provide to him? How should it be plumbed? We hired him to re-plumb our vent piping to get rid of any need for studor vents as we were having problems with them under the house with odor coming into the living area. I appreciate your assistance.

 

[TNHomeowner]

The "vent" is completely useless as it is located.

A master plumber plumbed this for us. He said the sink will draw from the 1 1/4 inch vent. He is refusing to fix it because he says there is nothing wrong with it. He does not believe the trap is going dry because he did a peppermint test once he had plumbed everything. He is only willing to listen to his level or above in why his plumbing set up would not be working properly. Is there some type of documentation regarding this matter that I could provide to him? How should it be plumbed? We hired him to re-plumb our vent piping to get rid of any need for studor vents as we were having problems with them under the house with odor coming into the living area. I appreciate your assistance.

 

[Reach4]

He is refusing to fix it because he says there is nothing wrong with it.

S-trap is wrong. I suspect he planned to put an AAV where the plug is and forgot.

He does not believe the trap is going dry because he did a peppermint test once he had plumbed everything.

It might not be running dry. It might well not contribute to your odor problem. But it is wrong.

Pull out washer and/or dryer to sniff up close. Smell the place where the washer hose goes.

Maybe you have a dead cat behind the dryer.

 

[TNHomeowner]

S-trap is wrong. I suspect he planned to put an AAV where the plug is and forgot.

It might not be running dry. It might well not contribute to your odor problem. But it is wrong.

Pull out washer and/or dryer to sniff up close. Smell the place where the washer hose goes.

Maybe you have a dead cat behind the dryer.

Odor doesn't come up the bathroom sink until the toilet is flushed. The washer and dryer are on the other side of the house.

What is the way that it should be set up? If we have him run a vent pipe up behind the bathroom sink so we don't need the AAV, (which is like a studor that we wanted to get rid of needing), would the rest of the set up work or do we need another vent for the bathtub? Is the toilet getting vented properly with the 1 1/4 vent so far away from it and upstream from it? Or do we wet vent the toilet with a vent behind the sink?

 

[Reach4]

What is the way that it should be set up? If we have him run a vent pipe up behind the bathroom sink so we don't need the AAV, (which is like a studor that we wanted to get rid of needing), would the rest of the set up work or do we need another vent for the bathtub? Is the toilet getting vented properly with the 1 1/4 vent so far away from it and upstream from it? Or do we wet vent the toilet with a vent behind the sink?

I am not a plumber, but I can spot an S-trap.
However analyzing the rest is beyond my knowledge.

 

[TNHomeowner]

I am not a plumber, but I can spot an S-trap.
However analyzing the rest is beyond my knowledge.

Thanks for your input. I will wait for someone who is a plumber to hopefully chime in.

 

[Terry]

First, read through this pdf file on plumbing.

The lav will siphon dry without an AAV where the cleanout is. That is a no-brainer.
The toilet is being vented by the lav, which is also not vented. When the toilet flushes, it pulls water from the trap of the lav.
Installing a Studor vent there allows the toilet to pull air instead.

The tub drain pipe to the trap is too long. That is also a problem with siphoning. I would shorten that distance by half at least, and add a Studor there too.

The washer should have a p-trap above the floor, not below. And that trap should also be vented to prevent being siphoned.

 

[TNHomeowner]

First, read through this pdf file on plumbing.

The lav will siphon dry without an AAV where the cleanout is. That is a no-brainer.
The toilet is being vented by the lav, which is also not vented. When the toilet flushes, it pulls water from the trap of the lav.
Installing a Studor vent there allows the toilet to pull air instead.

The tub drain pipe to the trap is too long. That is also a problem with siphoning. I would shorten that distance by half at least, and add a Studor there too.

The washer should have a p-trap above the floor, not below. And that trap should also be vented to prevent being siphoned.

Terry, Thank you so much for responding to my questions. What is the best way to re-plumb this to ensure no sewer gas enters the house? We do not want to use any AAV or studor vents.

Here is our situation. Our house was not properly vented. We hired a master plumber to put in proper venting, but these pictures show how he redesigned the system, which still allows sewer gas to enter the house as you stated. He says that is not possible, but is willing to come and fix/change it for an additional charge.

One of the other master plumbers who initially viewed our venting problem, said that we needed a 2 inch vent pipe run behind the vanity and to connect it to the toilet as a wet vent. He said the bathtub needed its own vent. This entails cutting the wall in two places, which is okay. We can repair the wall. We want the most fail-safe way to plumb it so that sewer gas does not enter the home.

What do you feel is the best way to vent this bathroom?

Thank you for mentioning in your response that the trap to the washing machine needs to be above the floor. He has it below the floor and it has odor emitting from it as well. How far up off the floor should the trap be in the wall? The washer has a dedicated 2 inch vent pipe on the downstream side. The vent pipe was originally plumbed on the upstream side, but he changed it to the downstream side.

I also have a question about underneath the kitchen sink (see new photo). He put in a 2 inch vent pipe dedicated to the kitchen sink but the tail of the setup underneath the sink may be too long. I am not sure what the problem is but there is a horrible noise coming from the drain every time I run water in one of them, so something may not be quite right there as well.

We greatly appreciate your help.

 

[Smooky]

If you run water in one sink and hear glug, glug, glug in the other sink then it is not vented and that sound is the other trap siphoning.

 

[TNHomeowner]

If you run water in one sink and hear glug, glug, glug in the other sink then it is not vented and that sound is the other trap siphoning.

Thanks for responding, Smooky. What would cause the sink on the other side to siphon?

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

Your plumber does not know his ass from a hole in the ground..
Some of the larger 3 inch stuff looks ok but he is lazy and could have
made this better with simple auto air vents....
Like Terry already stated you need at the very least an auto air vent under the lavatory,,
which would be the easy way to solve the problem...

under the kitchen sink he should have just used a continious waste for the kitchen sink
and plumber both of the basket strainers into one trap... Instead he has made it so when
one side is full and lets out it will siphon the other trap.... That is extremely half assed and
I doubt the guy has not even got a clue what a continious waste with a baffle tee for the kitchen sink even is....
.He worked twice as hard and spend more in fittings to do it wrong....which shows he is is
not sure what he is doing...

At this point I would just install some auto air vents under some of the sinks and behind the tub ......it should be ok fine,...
. I would just re-do the kitchen sink all together with a continous waste if there is a vent in the wall for the kitchen that would work great....

I honestly think it would be stupid to make a federal case out of this and open up walls to get vents out the roof when the auto air vents would work fine and dandy...

If you still owe him money just hold up on paying him...until he does it right

. If it is past this point I suggest
you give him a bad review on google if this clown actually is in business.....

 

[Smooky]

Auto air vents are usually used to let air out of a pressurized water system. An air admittance valve also known as an AAV allow air into the drain system so the trap is not siphoned when water is going down the drain. A properly working AAV is not supposed to let air or sewer odor escape into the living space. You do need at least one vent to the outside but some properly placed AAVs could help in your situation.

 

[TNHomeowner]

Your plumber does not know his ass from a hole in the ground..
Some of the larger 3 inch stuff looks ok but he is lazy and could have
made this better with simple auto air vents....
Like Terry already stated you need at the very least an auto air vent under the lavatory,,
which would be the easy way to solve the problem...

under the kitchen sink he should have just used a continious waste for the kitchen sink
and plumber both of the basket strainers into one trap... Instead he has made it so when
one side is full and lets out it will siphon the other trap.... That is extremely half assed and
I doubt the guy has not even got a clue what a continious waste with a baffle tee for the kitchen sink even is....
.He worked twice as hard and spend more in fittings to do it wrong....which shows he is is
not sure what he is doing...

At this point I would just install some auto air vents under some of the sinks and behind the tub ......it should be ok fine,...
. I would just re-do the kitchen sink all together with a continous waste if there is a vent in the wall for the kitchen that would work great....

I honestly think it would be stupid to make a federal case out of this and open up walls to get vents out the roof when the auto air vents would work fine and dandy...

If you still owe him money just hold up on paying him...until he does it right

. If it is past this point I suggest
you give him a bad review on google if this clown actually is in business.....

Thanks, Mark, for providing this additional information. Could you please refer me to the plumbing codes pertaining to a two-trap setup in a double sink causing siphoning, the necessity of having a trap above the floor for a washer, and too long of distance from a fixture to a trap causing siphoning? It would help me in getting these necessary changes made by the plumber. If I could show him an IPC or UPC code, he would not be able to argue about making the changes. At this point I am not able to hire another plumber to fix this plumber's errors. I know that is a lot to ask but I would greatly appreciate your assistance with the codes. If you do not have the time to provide me with the specific codes, could you give me the links to where I could read through the codes to perhaps locate them myself? Thank you.

 

[TNHomeowner]

Auto air vents are usually used to let air out of a pressurized water system. An air admittance valve also known as an AAV allow air into the drain system so the trap is not siphoned when water is going down the drain. A properly working AAV is not supposed to let air or sewer odor escape into the living space. You do need at least one vent to the outside but some properly placed AAVs could help in your situation.

Thank you for clarifying AAVs.