Not enough water going into the actual toilet bowl - Kohler Canister Flush Valve

[Caccaco]

So not the tank up on top, there isn't enough water going into the bowl. The toilet is apparently one of these new fangled Kohler Canister Flush Valves, so no flapper. The other mechanism is a Korky big looking thing.

Picture!

So basically there is not enough water going back into the bowl portion after a flush. To put is gently, the water level is so low any solid matter that goes into the bowl isn't in water and is exposed. You need to clean up manually after every ...movement... now because it's not in water and not enough water washes it down.

Any advice here? This is a new phenomenon that has been getting worse for a while now, its at the point where I need to find out what to do or I am going to need a whole new bowl!

 

[Reach4]

That refill tube should feed into the top of the flush unit.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Caccaco]

Well then, I had no idea about that and also this must have been set up wrong for many years now.

I'll go switch that and see what happens.

 

[Reach4]

Note the little black valve in line with the hose. After you find this fixed your problem, you may be able to turn that down a bit and still get full bowl fill. Ideally the bowl level will reach max as the water shuts off for minimum water consumption consistent with a full fill.

A curious child might have lifted the tube out at some point. Also, I think that silver-topped fill valve may have been a replacement unit, and the tube was not sufficiently placed in place when the fill valve was changed.

 

[Marlinman]

The Korky fill valve needs to be replaced with Kohler GP1083167 fill valve. It is designed to provide more water into the bowl.

 

[Elijah]

The other mechanism is a Korky big looking thing.

The refill hose on the Korky fill valve might be either too big to fit into the correct part of the flush valve or it might be too small to stay in there.

The Korky fill valve needs to be replaced with Kohler GP1083167 fill valve. It is designed to provide more water into the bowl.

A standard Fluidmaster 400A will also work. The Kohler "Class Five" (GP1083167) fill valve is basically a rebranded Fluidmaster 400A. In fact, the float on these "Kohler Class Five" fill valves have "Fluidmaster 400 model anti-siphon" engraved into the floats on them.

If you do end up getting the Kohler fill valve, you might want to remove the flow regulator from the bottom of the fill valve before installing it. The flow regulator is optional and only really reduces the noise of the refill process at the cost of the tank refilling very slowly. I removed the flow regulator from the Kohler fill valve in my Kohler Highline Classic toilet and it is slightly louder now but it refills in 20-30 seconds as opposed to the over 2 and a half minutes that it took to refill (not an exaggeration, it seriously took that long to fill on a normal flush) with the flow regulator installed.

 

[Marlinman]

You are correct. Fluidmasters 400A will work but will lower the bowl water by 1”.

 

[Caccaco]

So as an update, putting the hose back where it belongs has it filling back up like it's supposed to be.

New wrinkle, the canister itself is busted so now when you flush it pops up and floats around, the plastic part that holds it in place decided to randomly snap off today. Looks like I am going to the store to get a new one!

Is this what I need?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/KOHLER-Plastic-3-in-Flush-Valve-For-K-4634/1001000678

I'll get to the fill valve thing once I get this replaced.

The one mentioned is this: https://www.lowes.com/pd/KOHLER-Adjustable-Toilet-Fill-Valve/50077485

I could get them both the same trip.

 

[Reach4]

I'll get to the fill valve thing once I get this replaced.

To test whether the fill valve is refilling sufficiently, after a flush completes, note the water level a few minutes later. Slowly add another pint of water to the bowl, and see if the water stays at a higher level. If it does, you should get a fill valve with more refill.

The Korky fill valve needs to be replaced with Kohler GP1083167 fill valve. It is designed to provide more water into the bowl.

Would you suspect one of the adjustable-refill Fluidmaster or Korky fill valves would be able to be adjusted to enough refill?

 

[Marlinman]

I haven't tested or heard what the performance of the Fluidmaster 400H or 400AH. I know the popular 4ooA and Pro 45 will not sufficiently fill the bowl. The Korky 528 will not replace the Toto TSU99AX but the 528T and 528GT will. I haven't seen testing for the 528X or the 528MP.

 

[Caccaco]

Okay so it ended up being the 2" version and I have it at least working for tonight.

I hate this thing, I have never seen anything like it and replacing it was a terrible pain. Having to remove the whole tank was a surprise and right now I can't get the rubber gasket thing that the tank bolts go in to sit flush with the bowl. Nothing is currently leaking so I am leaving it alone until later. I will post a picture, the left forward tank bolt, it goes into a rubber piece and thats not going fully into the hole on the tank so it's all tilted.

So:

1) Thank you to everyone who pointed me in the right direction to get a replacement.

2) CAN I REPLACE THIS THING WITH A STANDARD FLAPPER SO I NEVER NEED TO GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN I AM READY TO THROW THIS TOILET IN A DUMPSTER BECAUSE OF HOW ANGRY THIS ALL MADE ME.

Okay, I am composed again, really annoyed at this whole process when for the rest of my days I have only replaced small rubber flappers and never had to go through this nonsense. Or if I cant replace it can I get a new tank that will let me?

 

[Reach4]

Most makers have gone to towers instead of flappers. They allow more precise metering of the water.

I would expect that you could install a flapper flush valve, but that would call for removing the tank again. I am not a pro.

 

[Caccaco]

Drat. Everything is ruined then.

So here is the picture of the rubber bit I cant get to sit flush..

\

It should be all the way through but the rubber wont go through. I guess unhook everything again and try to pull it through with some pliers?

it should look like the other two and be flush like this:

Time to get unhooking again. Are the bolts standard? They are so old there is almost nothing left of them on the top so a screw driver cant make a connection, I have been twisting them in by hand. Guess I need new ones of those two.

 

[Caccaco]

Actually, is it installed upside down and the long bits are supposed to go up into the tank instead of down onto the seat?

This whole thing may have been screwed up from the start!