Norris toilet replacement with a Toto?

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We're finally getting our bathrooms remodeled and I have a (novice) question. We currently have Norris toilets. They work well and we like that they have large tanks. We are considering replacing them with Toto Ultramax II toilets.

My concern is getting the newer toilets is the lower capacity. Is that concern unreasonable? Would like your thoughts on this.

Our home is from the 60s. We're slowly working on making it better.
Thanks.

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I had Norris in a 1974 home. They were awful.
The Ultramax II will be so much better than what you are used to.
With the Norris, they used to plug, with TOTO, I don't bother keeping a plunger in the home.


Thank you Terry.

And your experience has been that the lower tank capacity is easy to get used to? Doesn't require multiple flushes?

Thanks.
 

Gary Swart

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Toilets are in virtually every home in America, often more than one. Yet, as common as they are, most homeowners have little clue as to how they work. We tend to expect them to work and assume they are all the same. In the olden days, toilets required as much as 7 gallons of water per flush. Then they were improved and took only 5 gallons, later the consumption was reduced to 3.5 and then to 3. In the early 90's a new standard was mandated that required that all new toilets could only use 1.6 gallons per flush. There was a mad scramble among manufactures to meet this requirement. Most of them tried tweaking their current 3 gallon models by redesigning the flushing mechanisms. This was a disaster. They all clogged and caused problems. On company, Toto, early on realized this was not going to work so they redesigned the fixture itself. They has some early lemons too, but some got it right. Gradually over the years other manufacturers have followed so that most of the new models work pretty well. In fact, some now are using less then 1 gallon per flush! Yes, there is a trade off. Although clogging is no longer an issue, bowl cleaning can be less that desirable. However, a quick brushing takes care of that. Tanks hold more water than required for a regular flush. If, rarely, a stronger flush is needed, this is accomplished by just holding the handle down a couple of second more. Toilets have come light years from the old days.
 
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Toilets are in virtually every home in America, often more than one. Yet, as common as they are, most homeowners have little clue as to how they work. We tend to expect them to work and assume they are all the same. In the olden days, toilets required as much as 7 gallons of water per flush. Then they were improved and took only 5 gallons, later the consumption was reduced to 3.5 and then to 3. In the early 90's a new standard was mandated that required that all new toilets could only use 1.6 gallons per flush. There was a mad scramble among manufactures to meet this requirement. Most of them tried tweaking their current 3 gallon models by redesigning the flushing mechanisms. This was a disaster. They all clogged and caused problems. On company, Toto, early on realized this was not going to work so they redesigned the fixture itself. They has some early lemons too, but some got it right. Gradually over the years other manufacturers have followed so that most of the new models work pretty well. In fact, some now are using less then 1 gallon per flush! Yes, there is a trade off. Although clogging is no longer an issue, bowl cleaning can be less that desirable. However, a quick brushing takes care of that. Tanks hold more water than required for a regular flush. If, rarely, a stronger flush is needed, this is accomplished by just holding the handle down a couple of second more. Toilets have come light years from the old days.
Thank you... good info to have.
 

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I did my research and we've narrowed down our choices to either the Carlyle II or the Ultramax II. Anything you can share about the differences between these two, apart from the skirted vs. non-skirted looks? Thanks!
 

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I did my research and we've narrowed down our choices to either the Carlyle II or the Ultramax II. Anything you can share about the differences between these two, apart from the skirted vs. non-skirted looks? Thanks!
Carlyle II uses Unifit that can accept a 10 inch or 14 inch rough-in adapter.
If you have the common 12 inch rough in, the appearance is the deal... plus not all installers are used to the Unifit. Among the differences there is the installer has to drill 4 extra holes in the floor. That is hard with porcelain.

They are both going to be heavy.

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Carlyle II uses Unifit that can accept a 10 inch or 14 inch rough-in adapter.
If you have the common 12 inch rough in, the appearance is the deal... plus not all installers are used to the Unifit. Among the differences there is the installer has to drill 4 extra holes in the floor. That is hard with porcelain.

They are both going to be heavy.
Thanks Reach4. Does the installer have to drill 4 extra holes in the floor in all cases? Our rough-in is 12 inches.
 

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Thanks Reach4. Does the installer have to drill 4 extra holes in the floor in all cases? Our rough-in is 12 inches.
With the Carlyle II and others that use Unifit, yes.
 
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Jadnashua

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The front part of the adapter fits over the existing toilet flange in the floor, when you mount the toilet, it gets anchored to the part at the rear. That part MUST be properly supported to keep the toilet aligned and in place properly. Now, could you get by with maybe only two holes? Maybe. If your tile is porcelain, using a diamond core bit makes fairly fast, easy work of the required holes. If you try to use say a carbide bit, it may or may not work as most porcelain tiles are harder than carbide...diamond beats them all, though. When you drill a hole using a core bit, it's more like grinding the hole verses say cutting one in metal or wood. The working bit of a diamond core bit looks more like sandpaper than cutting teeth. It generally takes a bit longer and takes a little bit of technique to get it where you want and to not trash the diamond bit in the process (need to keep it wet for cooling and lubrication). Once you've done one, they aren't hard. All in all, with the proper tools, it might take 15-minutes longer than a conventional toilet. It's something many somewhat handy homeowners can do on their own quite successfully.
 

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The hard part is drill the holes in tile flooring. Regular bits just don't work. Some plumbers shy away because they can't or won't follow the instructions. It does take a bit longer to install these because of the extra holes and careful measuring required. As far as functioning, either will perform very well. Folks like the skirted toilets because the skirts make cleaning easier and they like the more streamline look. Just a matter of personal preference. As noted in a previous post, these come with 10", 12' and 14" adapters. The 12" is supplied, the 10" and 14" must be purchased as needed and there is no credit for the 12". I hope you got the idea that the Unifit will only work on specific Toto models.
 
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