Non-submersible sewage pump for basement bathroom.

[Thekid1]

I have a basement bathroom and I know that the traditional way is to install a plastic sewage tub and install a submersible pump inside, but I don't see why this can't be done with a non-submersible pump instead, so that I can just have pipes in the sewage tub instead of marinating the pump, and in the case of a repair, the pump will be readily accessible. I was thinking two valves on the suction and discharge so the pump can easily be replaced or repaired without a mess.

Can someone recommend a non-submersible pump that I can use for this? I plan to just drop a 3" or 4" pipe into the tub and connect the other end to the intake of the pump. I know some will question that a float is needed inside the tub, but I plan to install some sort of 2 prong water sensor about 6" off the bottom of the tub to activate the pump as the tub fills. I know they have those saniflow systems, but I'm not interested in those.

I don't see why this cannot work. I just need to find a proper pump. Thanks.

 

[Reach4]

To service a toilet, you normally need a grinder/mascerator pump. This cuts solids into pieces that can be pumped and passed through the pipe. Now if you will not have a toilet, then there might be something.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/adding-redundant-septic-pump.98793/#post-710812 pointed to https://redlionproducts.com/effluentsewage/cast-iron-surface-effluent-pumps/
That pump appears to be a suction pump, but I have no experience with it.

I think you could use an effluent pump if just servicing urinal, lavatory, shower, tub.

But with a toilet, take a look at Saniflo.

Note that a septic pit or a Saniflo needs a real vent, rather than an AAV.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Thekid1]

To service a toilet, you normally need a grinder/mascerator pump. This cuts solids into pieces that can be pumped and passed through the pipe. Now if you will not have a toilet, then there might be something.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/adding-redundant-septic-pump.98793/#post-710812 pointed to https://redlionproducts.com/effluentsewage/cast-iron-surface-effluent-pumps/
That pump appears to be a suction pump, but I have no experience with it.

I think you could use an effluent pump if just servicing urinal, lavatory, shower, tub.

But with a toilet, take a look at Saniflo.

Note that a septic pit or a Saniflo needs a real vent, rather than an AAV.

Actually, yes,, there is in fact a toilet involved here.

I'm not sure I'm following the person's setup you posted in that thread. But in any event, the pump you had posted is pretty much what I'm looking for. You mentioned a pump that grinds or mascerates the solids.

1) Will this pump handle solids too or do I need something in addition to grind the solids first before it ebters the intake? What options are available?
2) If the idea is to only have pipes in the sump to avoid a mess when things break down, then why would someone want to even install a float in the sump? Wouldn't some sort of 2 prong water sensor be suitable enough to trigger the pump instead?

I'm sure I'm not coming up with something new here, I just need to find the right pieces. I just don't understand why the submersibles are still used in this fashion. It just makes more sense to have the pump above the sump with 2 valves and 2 unions, staying clean on the outside.

 

[Reach4]

I'm not sure I'm following the person's setup you posted in that thread. But in any event, the pump you had posted is pretty much what I'm looking for. You mentioned a pump that grinds or mascerates the solids.

Your situation is not at all like that person. I only cited the thread because that is where I became aware of that pump.

2) If the idea is to only have pipes in the sump to avoid a mess when things break down, then why would someone want to even install a float in the sump? Wouldn't some sort of 2 prong water sensor be suitable enough to trigger the pump instead?

I am not up on the standard offerings, but often things can be done by elecronic device or (old fashioned)/(tried and true) methods. For example you would think that electronic pressure switches would be more reliable to control well pumps than cheaper mechanical switches. But that has not generally turned out to be the case.

Think about the electronic gadgets that hang up. You may get past the hang-up by power-cycling, and not think anything of it. But if it is your septic pit, that might not be so good.

I understand... but here are some advantages to submersible pumps.
1. It is easier to push water/effluant than to suck it.
2. Submersible pumps will be quieter.
3. Submersible pumps will take less electricity, tho that is going to be pretty trivial.
4. There are grinder/masserator versions that I know of. I don't know if that exists in small suction pumps.
5. Submersible pumps don't take extra floor space in the basement.

Did you look up Saniflo toilets? No pit required, and at least some can accept the lavatory or even shower drainage, and send it up and out.

So my comments are not based on experience.

 

[Thekid1]

Your situation is not at all like that person. I only cited the thread because that is where I became aware of that pump.

I am not up on the standard offerings, but often things can be done by elecronic device or (old fashioned)/(tried and true) methods. For example you would think that electronic pressure switches would be more reliable to control well pumps than cheaper mechanical switches. But that has not generally turned out to be the case.

Think about the electronic gadgets that hang up. You may get past the hang-up by power-cycling, and not think anything of it. But if it is your septic pit, that might not be so good.

I understand... but here are some advantages to submersible pumps.
1. It is easier to push water/effluant than to suck it.
2. Submersible pumps will be quieter.
3. Submersible pumps will take less electricity, tho that is going to be pretty trivial.
4. There are grinder/masserator versions that I know of. I don't know if that exists in small suction pumps.
5. Submersible pumps don't take extra floor space in the basement.

Did you look up Saniflo toilets? No pit required, and at least some can accept the lavatory or even shower drainage, and send it up and out.

So my comments are not based on experience.

I really appreciate your help. No, I'm not interested in the saniflow systems. They are quite interesting, but I'd like the bath to look like a normal bath.

You make good points with the submersible pumps. I just still will trade them all for an easier and cleaner way of replacing or repairing the pump if necessary.

Good point about newer technology vs new. I agree sometimes older remedies are better. In this case, I think some sort of 2 prong water probe that triggers a relay to turn on the pump when the water completes a low voltage electric circuit is still pretty hassle free compared to relying on a float.

 

[John Gayewski]

Imagine a leak from these vibrating connections you propose.

 

[Thekid1]

Imagine a leak from these vibrating connections you propose.

Ok so what do you propose?

I've imagined a leak in any situation. Tank overflowing, toilet overflowing, dealing with a marinated pump in feces in the event of a breakdown. There are vibration isolators I can install as well. In fact, my proposal did not have to be installed with dwv pipe/fittings. I'm not saying I'm an expert with this stuff, which is why I'm here, but I do believe there is an obviously better way than sinking a mechanical device that can/will break down, in sh!t.

Does anyone know what kind of pressure the traditional residential submersible pump puts out? I believe I found a few options for non-submersible, but there is a PSI rating in the specs and I'm not sure how that applies and would like to compare to it. Thanks.

 

[John Gayewski]

Ok so what do you propose?

I've imagined a leak in any situation. Tank overflowing, toilet overflowing, dealing with a marinated pump in feces in the event of a breakdown. There are vibration isolators I can install as well. In fact, my proposal did not have to be installed with dwv pipe/fittings. I'm not saying I'm an expert with this stuff, which is why I'm here, but I do believe there is an obviously better way than sinking a mechanical device that can/will break down, in sh!t.

Does anyone know what kind of pressure the traditional residential submersible pump puts out? I believe I found a few options for non-submersible, but there is a PSI rating in the specs and I'm not sure how that applies and would like to compare to it. Thanks.

Have you ever changed a pump?

 

[John Gayewski]

Ok so what do you propose?

I've imagined a leak in any situation. Tank overflowing, toilet overflowing, dealing with a marinated pump in feces in the event of a breakdown. There are vibration isolators I can install as well. In fact, my proposal did not have to be installed with dwv pipe/fittings. I'm not saying I'm an expert with this stuff, which is why I'm here, but I do believe there is an obviously better way than sinking a mechanical device that can/will break down, in sh!t.

Does anyone know what kind of pressure the traditional residential submersible pump puts out? I believe I found a few options for non-submersible, but there is a PSI rating in the specs and I'm not sure how that applies and would like to compare to it. Thanks.

If you had ever changed a pump youd realize that it's better in a pit. You disconnect the pipes above and pull the pump out by the clean section of pipe that rises above the pit. I use unions and just take those apart. The pump goes directly into a bag. Then I unscrew the pipe from the bagged pump and screw it onto the new pump. Then I lower it into the hole. The bagged pump goes into another bag. Then it all goes in the trash.

All of that is made easier by the pit. Otherwise there's dripping poo.

A glued dwv fitting is what you want. You don't want to use a fitting that isn't recessed.