Complete bathroom remodel

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Lordoftheflies

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More pics.

Here is where the old tub was. About 61.5" across as they left room for floating the tile.

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Here's where I can go up into the ceiling to reconnect back with the stack.

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If I go with a 3" pipe from the stack across under this wall I can put the toilet on the opposite (outside) wall to the right, tee off of it to connect the drain for the bathtub, and reposition the vanity somewhere else as well.

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The inside wall to the hallway is not load bearing except to hold up the 2x4 used for the ceiling. I don't need headers there, right?

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Existing vent for the bathtub that goes up into the ceiling.

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They left like 1/8" in the corner instead of butting up another 2x4. Money saved!

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Lordoftheflies

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What a mess. See the notched joist that just broke 0ff in my hand. Also the notched joist for the 1.5" bathtub drain.

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You can see some kind of water damage from the roof as well as the galvanized vent connection from the vanity and the kitchen/downstairs bath. I think that was when a few shingles fell off during sandy.

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This is the mess at the DWV for the toilet bend and the drain connections.

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I like how they bent the copper there. Very cool!

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Vent for the sink

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Vent from kitchen and downstairs bathroom.

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Lordoftheflies

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At this point should I just burn down the house and start fresh????

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Absolutely useless closet INSIDE the bathroom. No access to shower valves and you can't even reach to the back of the shelves as they are 30" deep. What moron decided to do that? I was going to open it up to the hallway and have open shelving, leaving an access panel to the shower just in case. With the updated plan I don't need the access panel.

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Lordoftheflies

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Bump! I removed the water and drain connections for the 2nd floor bathroom. Existing vent to downstairs is still connected. Ripped up the subfloor to find lots and lots of mold.

And the floor joist need to be sistered/repaired. I am unsure if I can box them out using a headout. But what I do know is that I am ripping the closet inside the bathroom out, the adjacent closet is coming out, and I'm starting fresh!!!

Ceiling in the adjacent "walk-in" closet was a different height. No insulation in the roof. Water damage everywhere under the subfloor. Stains down the drywal in between bath and closet.

I have a nice 15" soffit above the kitchen cabinets. I think this will allow me to skip a floor joist using a 45 3" tee off the main stack after I replace with PVC. I can then close up the walk-in closet door and have that be the throne room with the toilet facing out away from the hallway and towards the outside wall.

Where the existing toilet was I will put the vanity. I have to draw all this up but we are still in the demo/assessing damage stage.

The joists are 7' from the stud to the hallway wall. Since I'm going to level the floors I guess I'll just put all new joists, glue them with Premium PL, and drill 5/8" holes for 1/2 x 4" galvanized bolts. The joists are 2x8 and of course the local orange boxstore only has 2x6, 2x10, and 2x12 so I have to drive a bit to get them. I am going to support them with some cross pieces of 2x8 doubled up before and after the areas that were notched by the idiots before me.

Last bathroom remodel estimated in 1960.

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Extra space.

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Capped the water supply lines and then proceeded to cut out all the rest of it. Left the downstairs vent connection intact.

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5 of the joists were notched to hell for the 1.5" drain and the toilet flange connection.

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Some nice mold under the old bathtub. Will be replacing all that sheetrock.

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Going to have to make this a 2x6 wall. That will allow me to hide the stack. However, I still have to figure out where to put the damn bathtub. If I leave it where it is I still have bring the drain over 5 joists that are 16" on center somehow. I don't think I have enough play with 2x8 to drill a 2" hole and still have the proper 1/4"/ft slope. Any suggestions there? I guess it will make more sense once I draw out the dimensions. I will try to do that tonight.

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Lordoftheflies

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I guess one way would be to lower the ceiling in the downstairs bathroom or put a drop ceiling.
 
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Ok here is the original floor plan:
 

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Lordoftheflies

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Updated layout. I forgot to put the toilet flange and the vanity.
 

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Jadnashua

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A floating mudded layer can cover up lots of sins...the advent of thinset methods are lots less forgiving, and your structure needs to at least meet the industry minimums if you want any assurance it will survive long-term.

How best to beef up your mangled joists might best be solved by talking to a structural engineer. I had to do that on one project. If he doesn't have to make drawings and sign off on plans for a building permit, it's lots less expensive. I think the guy only charged me less than $200 to visit, measure, run some calculations and give me an unofficial recommendation. Sometimes, that's the safest way to proceed.

I would avoid a steel tub...first, they're flimsy, and second, they dent easily, third, they chip and once they do, they'll rust. A good CI tub or an acrylic one are often better choices. Once you get your joists up to snuff so that they'll support a new tiled floor, it will also support your choice of tub. It's prudent to take overall added weight into consideration, but it isn't the only component to consider.
 

Lordoftheflies

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I am having a structural engineer show up at the house tomorrow. Hopefully I can get moving on repairing the joists.

To repair the joists, I need to knock out the sheetrock on the bathroom below. I also need to cut the CI stack and remove just the 2nd floor bath connection. I need to pull the toilet in the downstairs bath, cut the sheetrock so I can cut the CI stack there, replace with PVC using Fernco couplings. Then I need to reconnect the pvc above to the existing CI vent and reconnect the kitchen and downstairs vents to the PVC. Replace the toilet and close up the sheetrock on the wall at least. Repair the joists, replace sheetrock for the 1st floor bath...........

Sounds like a lot for one day.
 

Jadnashua

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Before you cut the CI, make sure that you've properly supported the pipe above and ensure you use the banded couplings to ensure the pipe ends are kept in line, not the simple rubber sleeve with the clamps at each end.
 

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Will do. I had the SE visit. Cost me $450 clams. I think it was worth it.

Short version of the plan:

1. Sister 2x8 LVL joists to the joist next to four joists adjacent to the joist that was severely notched with double 2x8 joist hangers and 10D 1.5" galvanized nails for the 2nd floor bath

2. Install double 2x8 LVL headers before and after the toilet flange. Since there is the wall for the kitchen that the header can rest on one side, he said it wasn't necessary to double up that joist as the wall would help support the headers.

3. Make the wall for the downstairs bathroom a load bearing wall for the 2x8 LVL sisters so they don't have to be full length 12'. This will enable me to get the sisters up into the space. Otherwise I'd have to tear out a whole lot more.

4. Install header above door and closet for said wall on the 1st floor.

5. Obviously this involves tearing out the ceiling of the downstairs bathroom 100%. The sheetrock is all moldy on the inside anyways and severely cracked from all the demo work above as well.

6. Make sure there is a jack stud for the new headers. If there isn't an existing jack stud, I will cut the king and make that a jack, and tack on an additional 2x4.

7. I think I have a layout all set. I will draw it up on sketchup in the next days or so.

Exhausted from having my wife in India till Friday. She's been gone since last Tuesday. 3 kids + grandma = fun times and no work for me.

Could one of the mods perhaps move this to the remodel forum? I don't feel like double posting. :D
 

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Well, I just broke my ring finger playing softball so I will have to rest for at least a week........Finger in a splint. Anyways, I have to figure out how to layout the bathroom still. There's a cross joist at the wall near the window where I'd like to bring the drain for the vanity up preventing me from coming into the wall. However, it is an outside wall so I suppose having the drain and water supply lines coming out of the floor isn't the worst thing. Since I'm in the northeast it's advisable not to put water lines on the outside wall anyways.

Here's a pic of the broken finger. :D

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Got some nice progress done yesterday. Supported the stack with a riser clamp on top of two pieces of 2x4 on the wall, snapped the pipe in the downstairs bathroom after removing the ceiling, snapped again just above toilet flange, snapped one more time to disconnect the vent.

Installed a AAV temporarily on the galvanized vent. Will figure out my final plan on how to tie that in with the stack but most likely through a knee wall instead of the existing height.

Everything went smooth though man the snapping is quite violent even with the stack supported! I noticed that I saw a few drops of water come down from the vent at the roof so I will have to reseal the vent on top of the roof. It was raining pretty steadily yesterday.

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Had to get the downstairs bathroom working because we have no other bathroom.

Today will clean up the ceiling, remove all nails, and figure out if we can get a 2x8 joist up into the space to sister. I need to get 4 pieces up there and the one nearest the bathtub is blocked by a closet.

Look at that frigging notched joist! The original people who did this should be shot.

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The BX cable that was in the joists was for the ceiling fan. That was easily removed and not a problem. The ac duct will be a problem. I am going to have to figure out how to box in that failed joist. Probably will have to open the ceiling in the hallway. Also on today's list is to demo above the door and the adjacent closet so I can install headers as this wall will now be load bearing for the upstairs bathroom.
 

Lordoftheflies

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I ended up cutting out the central ac duct that is no longer in use. I will put electric wall heaters in both bathrooms instead as we have minisplit heat pumps (ac and heat) in each br (4) and living room (1).

I have room to use a double 2x8 header between the wall and the waste stack with enough room to hammer in the joist hangers.

The vent is definitely dripping very slowly at the roof. When it stops raining I will have to get up there and seal it.

Here is the ac duct transition I cut out. I could use the channel to bring up water supply lines for the bathtub and even maybe more electrical.






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Here you can see how I have room behind the stack to support this utterly destroyed joist.

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Corner of the bathroom near the door. I have to sister one more joist to the left of here. I might have to slip it up sideways but it will be tight.

There are 2x4 headers laid flat between the two joists currently.

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You can see the 2x4 braces here.

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Cripples above the door. I love how the two studs to the right aren't even flush with the door frame. It's a metal door frame too. Left side of the door has another stud but it's not butted up against this stud. There MIGHT be room to slip another 2x4 in there but I won't know until I demo from the outside.

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Lordoftheflies

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I had a spare 12" piece of 2x8 that I measured up against the existing joists. Looks like the old ones are a bit taller - maybe 7.5" instead of 7.25". Maybe back then they made them 7.5"?
 

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Ok progress report.

1. I decided to open up the wall just to make sure the jack stud was a real jack stud......and guess what? It wasn't. It was two pieces of 2x4 *not even nailed together* just sitting on top of each other. There was a scrap 2x4 in between that and the king stud.

2. The king stud was floating in mid-air. It was sitting on *NOTHING*.

3. They cut out the top plate and the sole plates for the two ac ducts. This must be what happened.

4. The stud next to the king was stud was TWO pieces of 2x4 cobbled together and nailed sideways. WTF.

5. I repaired the two cracked 2x8 joists beneath the 1st floor bath by putting some wood glue in the cracks, jacking up a 2x6 with a car jack, sistering a new 2x8 (measured 7.5" btw from a lumberyard vs home cheapo) and then installed a double 2x8 joist hanger. Did this to 2 of the cracked joists. First I removed the electrical and temporarily spliced it in a box. I also installed a 3rd joist in between the two.

6. I removed the ac ducts and decided I will install electric 120v wall heaters in both bathrooms.

7. Reframed the door. Stupid metal door frames.

8. Removed the adjacent closet on the opposite side of the door. I did not have room to install a king stud without doing this. Also the end of the top plate was not sitting on a stud. Fabulous.

9. I decided to install a double top plate as well as a double sole plate where they cut out for the ac ducts. This would give me the stability I was looking for.

10. Now I need to pick up some additional 2x4s. I was not planning on reframing this entire wall.

Any comments anyone? Enjoying the popcorn? I'm feeling a little ignored over here. :D

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