No water pressure..

[Michael Frederick]

I've recently moved in with my girlfriend. The house was built around 1992 and it has Well water. Back in the spring of this year before I moved in my girlfriend had noticed the water pressure gradually decreasing. It grew steadily worse and by the time I moved in at the end of July the kitchen faucet was running at just a trickle. She bought the house in 1996 and had never had an issue with the well with the exception of a pressure switch. I measured the flow rate at the pump head at just 2 gallons per minute. Although I've never worked on a well before that number seemed incredibly low for a 3 bedroom house. With money being tight we shopped and around and purchased a new submersible pump. Again since Ive never worked on a well I wasn't familiar with flow rate and such we ended up purchasing a smaller one and didn't realize it until I got the old one pulled from the well. I installed the new pomp which is 1/4 hp less than the old pump. The date on the old pump is April of 1993 and was at a depth of 180. Since the new pomp is slightly smaller I only put it down 100 feet. We now have a flow rate of 12 gallons per minute at the pump head but still have no pressure in the house. Is 12 gpm at the wellhead acceptable?

 

[WorthFlorida]

Is there any water flow in the house at all? Is the pump running by the pressure switch or you bypass it to check the flow rate?

12 gpm is more than acceptable. you made no mention of the pressure tank. If it's a bladder type, the bag may have failed or it just needs to be charged with air. There are plenty of YouTube that show how it is done. You can post the tank model # & size here for more help.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[LLigetfa]

If the new pump cannot build enough pressure, it is likely one of two things. Either the pump is not sized to lift the distance or there is a leak in the pipe between the pump and the house. My guess is the latter since the old pump could not build enough pressure either.
You need to give us more information such as the static water level and the pump make and model.

 

[WorthFlorida]

Is there a check valve from the wellhead to pressure tank? Is there a spigot valve before the pressure tank for servicing, etc? Just trying to figure out how far the water flows before it drops or a check valve is stuck closed or blocked with debris.

 

[Reach4]

I installed the new pomp which is 1/4 hp less than the old pump. The date on the old pump is April of 1993 and was at a depth of 180. Since the new pomp is slightly smaller I only put it down 100 feet. We now have a flow rate of 12 gallons per minute at the pump head but still have no pressure in the house. Is 12 gpm at the wellhead acceptable?

If you still have the old pump, post a photo of the the nameplate on the pump part.

Pumps have both HP and a gpm rating. If your gpm rating for a given HP is too low, then you could get high volume at the wellhead, but seriously reduced flow when the water has to continue uphill or through restrictions. Tell us the HP and the GPM for both pumps.

Note that the work a pump does is related to how far down the surface of the water, and not how far down the pump is.

 

[Michael Frederick]

Is there any water flow in the house at all? Is the pump running by the pressure switch or you bypass it to check the flow rate?

12 gpm is more than acceptable. you made no mention of the pressure tank. If it's a bladder type, the bag may have failed or it just needs to be charged with air. There are plenty of YouTube that show how it is done. You can post the tank model # & size here for more help.

 

[Michael Frederick]

The expansion tank is a bladder type, 52 gallon . I should have mentioned the tank, I apologise. My girlfriend had a friend look at the system back in April...he knew even less about Wells than I do....he added air to the expansion tank and had 80lbs of air in it and for the life of me I couldn't figure out why the tank wouldn't fill up....then I got to thinking if I'm not getting more than 28lbs of pressure it won't fill up..so I checked the air pressure in the tank and couldn't believe my eyes when I saw 80lbs so I grabbed another gauge and sure enough 80lbs...so I just started releasing air until I heard the tank start filling. The pressure gauge down at the pressure switch is at constant 0psi so I'm pretty sure it's bad so I'm replacing it along with the pressure switch. We have water to the bathroom and the kitchen and the out side spikets but very low flow...it's enough to wash dishes, we are getting hot water but not enough pressure to run the shower. One additional question ...when I was replacing the pump I shut the breaker off but still had power in one of the wires to the pump..I know it was the correct breaker because it's in box by itself at the well...it does shut the pump off but I still have juice in one of the 3 wires to the pump. I tried listening for a leak in the well casing with the cap off just in case I had a pressure loss in the well but I don't hear anything and didn't see any bubbles or ripples in the water. It's a 6 inch casing and it's an artisan well and the water level is within 4 feet of the top.

 

[Michael Frederick]

Sorry for the poor quality of pics.

 

[Michael Frederick]

Is there a check valve from the wellhead to pressure tank? Is there a spigot valve before the pressure tank for servicing, etc? Just trying to figure out how far the water flows before it drops or a check valve is stuck closed or blocked with debris.

There's a spigot just after the water exits the expansion tank. I am only getting two or three gallons per minute out of the 50 foot garden hose thats hooked to it..that spigot is within 6 inchs of the expansion tank . There's a check valve on the pump but none anywhere else ..I removed one when I replaced the pump .there were two...one on the pump and one at the 100 ft mark..I don't like running more than one check valve. The pipe is one inch diameter coming out of the well then a 4" nipple connects to a union...it's black pipe to that point where it then switchs to 1" pvc pipe..a 90 degree elbow drops it down to the floor then another 90 degree elbow with a 4" length piece of pvc pipe threads into the "Tree assembly that holds the pressure switch, pressure gauge and rear facing pipe into the expansion tank. On the outlet side of the Tree it immediately drops down to 3/4 inch copper pipe with a 90 degree upward facing elbow and raises up 30 inch's to a water filter housing then exits the filter and immediately drops back down at which point it goes underground to the house. I've included some pics, one is the water flow from the 3/4 inch pipe after the expansion tank. I'm not an expert but it seems to still have good flow at that point. The water filter has no filter cartridge in it and my girlfriend didn't even know she had a water filter so she's not sure how long the filter has been gone. .

 

[Reach4]

One additional question ...when I was replacing the pump I shut the breaker off but still had power in one of the wires to the pump..I know it was the correct breaker because it's in box by itself at the well...it does shut the pump off but I still have juice in one of the 3 wires to the pump.

1. Is the new pump a 115 volt pump?
2. Is the breaker a 2-pole breaker, or 1-pole breaker?
3. The thing in the box by the well may be a switch, and there is a breaker in in the breaker box. You could also have a breaker both places. A breaker will have a number on the handle normally.

 

[WorthFlorida]

The electric doesn't sound right but doubtful it's the cause of the no pressure. The box near the well is most likely a "disconnect" switch but is should be opening both sides for a 220v motor. Some of these older disconnect switches do look like breakers.

 

[Michael Frederick]

If you still have the old pump, post a photo of the the nameplate on the pump part.

Pumps have both HP and a gpm rating. If your gpm rating for a given HP is too low, then you could get high volume at the wellhead, but seriously reduced flow when the water has to continue uphill or through restrictions. Tell us the HP and the GPM for both pumps.

Note that the work a pump does is related to how far down the surface of the water, and not how far down the pump is.

 

[Michael Frederick]

Here's some pics of the old pump. I couldn't find any marking for gpm on the pump or the motor. The pump I replaced it with is a 1/2 Hp . The Max lift of 164 ft , , The rated lift is 110ft with a flow rate of 13.2 GPM.. I'm running it at 80ft and getting 12GPM...If measured the static water level correctly it's 4ft 8 inch's...less than 5ft below the well head. I've also included a picture of the new pumps specs.

 

[Michael Frederick]

1. Is the new pump a 115 volt pump?
2. Is the breaker a 2-pole breaker, or 1-pole breaker?
3. The thing in the box by the well may be a switch, and there is a breaker in in the breaker box. You could also have a breaker both places. A breaker will have a number on the handle normally.

 

[Michael Frederick]

Here's a pic of the breaker box...the switch I've been using to shut it off is on the far left in the picture. The pump is a 3 wire and is 230 volts.

 

[Michael Frederick]

Here's a pic of the breaker box...the switch I've been using to shut it off is on the far left in the picture. The pump is a 3 wire and is 230 volts.

I think I just figured out why I still had one live wire...is it possible that the two end breakers control the pump together...? I had only been shutting off one , the one on the far left...but it is a 230 volt pump...the one breaker I had been shutting off is a 30 amp, the far left one...but the far right breaker is also a 30 amp... I'm thinking now I should have been shutting them both off ..

 

[Reach4]

Your old and new pumps are 230 vac pumps. The old pump was 3/4 10 gpm, which could generate a lot of pressure.

The new one is 1/2 HP 13 gpm, and could generate about 45 psi at 13 gpm. A 1/2 hp 10 gpm pump would have been able to generate more pressure.

One additional question ...when I was replacing the pump I shut the breaker off but still had power in one of the wires to the pump..I know it was the correct breaker because it's in box by itself at the well...it does shut the pump off but I still have juice in one of the 3 wires to the pump.

I presume you are measuring the voltage with one probe on a ground, and the other on a wire. I don't know how you would turn off a switch and show 120 volts on on one of the wires with respect to ground.

It may be that the switch you are turning off is only a single-pole switch.

 

[LLigetfa]

...If measured the static water level correctly it's 4ft 8 inch's...less than 5ft below the well head...

Then 5 feet is what the pump has to lift regardless of what depth you set it, unless the well cannot produce at the rate you pump it in which case it draws down the water level. One normally does not set the pump 180 feet down unless they anticipate the water in the well to be drawn down or fluctuate that low.
If a pump designed to draw from great depths is used in such a high water table well, it can suffer from upthrust which damages the vanes (volutes) in it.

 

[Michael Frederick]

Then 5 feet is what the pump has to lift regardless of what depth you set it, unless the well cannot produce at the rate you pump it in which case it draws down the water level. One normally does not set the pump 180 feet down unless they anticipate the water in the well to be drawn down or fluctuate that low.
If a pump designed to draw from great depths is used in such a high water table well, it can suffer from upthrust which damages the vanes (volutes) in it.

The house had a small orchard and a hot tub outside on the deck and two full bathrooms with each bathroom having a full whirlpool type tub and also a 13,000 gallon swimming pool outside. The orchard is long gone and the irrigation system has been disconnected for several years. I found an old well head closer to the orchard and don't believe the irrigation system was even tied into the house Well although it's highly possible it was drawing from the same body of water,

 

[Michael Frederick]

Ive tied a fishing bobber onto a line and lowered it down the well casing and it floating...I tied the other end off with no slack in the line...if I have a leak underground between the well and the house the water level will drop in the well casing and the bobber will no longer be floating...there's no water being used in the house as I'm the only one home. ..Am I correct in thinking this?...Also I figured out the electric issue...the pump is connected to two separate 30 amp breakers in the same breaker box...instead of using a double pole breaker they used two single breakers and they are not side by side..they are separated.