Next Question: Vertical to horizontal 1/4 bend

[Markos]

Hmm my old thread was deleted. Not sure why.

UPC says no 1/4 bend vertical to horizontal. I
need to clear my wall and can’t do it with a long sweep or a 45. Given that the horizontal is just a few inches will this get a pass? This is 2” for the shower. I also added a cleanout in the vertical section as seen in the video. Not sure why I called it a “trap”.

Video update with question. 3 minutes of your life:

If you see anything else that makes you cringe please chime in.

 

[Markos]

Worst case scenario I can drill through the sill, but fitment will be very tight.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

Are you confident that two 45s won't do it? You could put the cleanout elsewhere.

Nothing in your photo is called a trap.

 

[Markos]

Are you confident that two 45s won't do it? You could put the cleanout elsewhere.

Nothing in your photo is called a trap.

Yeah I can’t fit one without hitting the top plate. Agreed no traps in the photo. In the video you can see I added a cleanout where the pipe goes vertical. I called it a trap in the video for some unknown reason.

As I look at it, I think I can notch the upper top plate to fit a full sweep 90. Leaning that direction.

 

[John Gayewski]

Can you route those vents into walls that don't have an obstruction below them?

Just fyi. I would use a regular quarter bend in these scenarios. It is technically a code violation, but cleanout access makes up for that in my opinion.

Your vents for your toilets need don't revisiting. Must they run horizontally under the floor?

 

[Jeff H Young]

Video helps but if you panned the camera slower much slower it helps too. I cant guess what inspector says. he likely wouldnt say a thing. first toilet has an issue too in that the vent is horizontal below flood level unless it picks up a lav. the 1/4 bends you point out are violations I will guess it slides by let us know how it goes with inspector. Normaly I recomend complying to code even if it "dosent matter" kind of hard to advice to ignore but its somewhat minor unless he makes you change it

 

[Markos]

Thanks for the tips all. Context. I pulled my house 26’ forward and blew up the old bathrooms and added a new. Many real estate issues in the new space due to the glu lam. Should have used a steel beam under the joists instead of hanging the joists on the beam. Overall my architect really didn’t factor ceiling height into his drawings and I ended up recessing nearly all of my beams for that reason. It is making drain plumbing a chore.

1/4 Bends:
I think I will play it safe a notch the upper top plate. That will give me 1.5” of vertical clearance. It will be about a 1” notch on a 2x6 and only one plate so per UPC shouldn’t need any traps.

Toilet vents:
I will need to dig into this one more. I see commenters saying that the vent isn’t required on other posts. My issue with the toilets is that in all cases the runs need to immediately switch to horizontal. I don’t have the opportunity to use a 3” sanitary tee on either.

Guest Barhroom, the closet flange is up against a 2x10 joist. I can’t drill more than 3.03” into rust joist and couldn’t fit the neck of a tee through it. I could certainly continue the 3” past the toilet then upturn to a 2” vertical vent. Technically still a 3” horizontal vent though right? I assumed that this would cause more waste to collect near the closet flange.

Primary Bath:
Toilet is against a 21” glu lam. The bathroom wall is parked directly on top of it. I have the wall space but again, little room for a tee. I could potentially run the vent though the floor behind the toilet and up into the wall cavity above. This is new area and 2x12 so a bit more wiggle room.

Youtube:

Thanks for the tip on slowing down. FYI - You can also hit the gear icon on any YT video and reduce the speed significantly. Helpful for things like “learning to play the piano”

 

[Jeff H Young]

Thanks didnt know I could slow down the video .
I think it all looks good but the horrizontal vent does have leeway as inspector does have discretion to approove based on "structural conditions" causing hardship to comply with the code. normaly a long sweep is used there as well. I dont want to nit pick though I definately think its a little better system to fully comply with both the issues of horrizontal dry vents and using proper sweep fittings, I know some think Im wrong on inspectors writing up some of these infractions but Ive seen a lot and gotten called on stuff like this but seen worse things pass. kind of like will you get a ticket in your car for ? Fill in blank

 

[John Gayewski]

Thanks for the tips all. Context. I pulled my house 26’ forward and blew up the old bathrooms and added a new. Many real estate issues in the new space due to the glu lam. Should have used a steel beam under the joists instead of hanging the joists on the beam. Overall my architect really didn’t factor ceiling height into his drawings and I ended up recessing nearly all of my beams for that reason. It is making drain plumbing a chore.

1/4 Bends:
I think I will play it safe a notch the upper top plate. That will give me 1.5” of vertical clearance. It will be about a 1” notch on a 2x6 and only one plate so per UPC shouldn’t need any traps.

Toilet vents:
I will need to dig into this one more. I see commenters saying that the vent isn’t required on other posts. My issue with the toilets is that in all cases the runs need to immediately switch to horizontal. I don’t have the opportunity to use a 3” sanitary tee on either.

Guest Barhroom, the closet flange is up against a 2x10 joist. I can’t drill more than 3.03” into rust joist and couldn’t fit the neck of a tee through it. I could certainly continue the 3” past the toilet then upturn to a 2” vertical vent. Technically still a 3” horizontal vent though right? I assumed that this would cause more waste to collect near the closet flange.
View attachment 91410

Primary Bath:
Toilet is against a 21” glu lam. The bathroom wall is parked directly on top of it. I have the wall space but again, little room for a tee. I could potentially run the vent though the floor behind the toilet and up into the wall cavity above. This is new area and 2x12 so a bit more wiggle room.
View attachment 91411

Youtube:

Thanks for the tip on slowing down. FYI - You can also hit the gear icon on any YT video and reduce the speed significantly. Helpful for things like “learning to play the piano”

Your toilets: can't you wye up into a wall on the way to the stack? Any wall (almost) can't hold a 2" vent.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

They make street long sweep 90's and street 45's that may help in making that clearance. But I'm not sure what it is you're trying to clear? Is there a wall down below that the horizontal 3" is going to make it to? Is it the height thats an issue or the projection of the Long Sweep moving the vertical drop too far out of plane?

Video: you mention a long sweep bend while panning to the Horizontal to Vertical drop. Med sweep / 1/4 turn is fine for H >V drops.

This toilet needs the vent to take off downstream from the Invert of the drain. Not upstream.

 

[Markos]

Your toilets: can't you wye up into a wall on the way to the stack? Any wall (almost) can't hold a 2" vent.

I’m taking a second look at options to run a vertical wye within 6’ of the toilet. I will report back! The upside is that it would be a lot easier to merge the two vents.

They make street long sweep 90's and street 45's that may help in making that clearance. But I'm not sure what it is you're trying to clear? Is there a wall down below that the horizontal 3" is going to make it to? Is it the height thats an issue or the projection of the Long Sweep moving the vertical drop too far out of plane?

So the clearance issue was the height between the floor and the top plate of the wall below the floor. It’s a 2x12 joist, so gives me 11.25” to work with. The tee visible in the pic goes to the shower and needs to be about 2.5” below the floor. The 2.5” requirement is so my p-trap to tee horizontal can drop 3/8” as it passes 16.75” through two joists. I need to stay 2” away from the joist edge. The the height of the tee plus the 1/4 bend ate up the remaining ~9” of height. I’m not being super precise with my description but I’m certain you get the idea.

The good news is that as you recommended, the street long sweep gives me some needed real estate. I just need to notch the top plate about 1/4”. Now that I am in the clear I will drill my joist holes.

Street long sweep 90 just touching the top plate. Need to notch just a hair.

 

[Markos]

No updates on the guest bath toilet vent. From what I have read it is acceptable as long as the wye is at 45 degrees or higher. I think I will see what the inspector has to say about it.

The top side of the vanity plumbing is done. I just discovered the Fergusons has a double fixture fitting that has 1.5” sides, 1.5” vent, and a 2” drain. I could have purchased but would need to swap out the 1.5” pipe since the fitting is shorter. I’m currently using a 2” with adapters. Frankly I like the increased volume of the big 2” double fixture fitting. Won’t cut the holes in the roof until the 11th hour. New PVC roof so will need to have boots welded on.

 

[Markos]

BTW - None of this stuff is glued yet. My immediate goal is to pass framing. I hope to get a precursor review from my inspector before gluing it all together. He was a career plumber and said most DiY plumbing permits don’t pass.

 

[Jeff H Young]

upc 905.3 should explain that flat vent on the toilet I used to do it a lot back in the day but good luck arguing with inspector if he calls you you cant really argue .

 

[Jeff H Young]

ok if its not glued concider a san tee on the clean out in post number 12 . it allows a snake to go down . clean outs tees back far in the wall can iritate inspectors too (if they know code)

 

[Markos]

upc 905.3 should explain that flat vent on the toilet I used to do it a lot back in the day but good luck arguing with inspector if he calls you you cant really argue .

I appreciate the warning and hope it goes well. The first line of upc 905.3 is:

“Unless prohibited by structural conditions”. I still have manageable options for a vertical wye. For this is one area I’ll just flat out ask about it during the framing inspection. Does he want a vertical vent 7+ feet away, or a horizontal nearby. Going
rearward of the toilet, I can only drill a 3.03” hole in a 2x10, which won’t fit a 3” ABS pipe, and I don’t have room to fit the 3” to 2” wye because I have gas and water going through the otherwise tiny opening in the next/last bay behind the toilet.

 

[Markos]

ok if its not glued concider a san tee on the clean out in post number 12 . it allows a snake to go down . clean outs tees back far in the wall can iritate inspectors too (if they know code)

Not a problem! I flat out assumed that they want proper clean outs and not san tees. It is a 2” pipe mostly centered in a 2x6 I have the room, and actually intend to keep it accessible. Went to ferguson today. They want $15 for a flush mount 2” clean out plug!!!

Clean out will be hiding at the back of the shelf here. Unfortunately right behind the center post so knowing that I can use a san tee I may clock it and add a small portion of pipe to clear the drywall. Nobody will ever see it.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Markos you might have a senario that allows that type venting the way you describe .
clean outs that need extended should use drainage fittings 707.6 not trying to pick at it just wanting to help you pass , I will tell you a lot of inspectors wont say a word about either of these.

 

[John Gayewski]

Fankly I like the increased volume of the big 2” double fixture fitting.

A 2" drain for a lav and even a double lav is oversized. Adding "volume" there doesn't help. I'm not trying to get you to change it, it's done all of the time. I'm just letting you know it's not better. A 1.5" pipe can gravity drain something like 7 gpm with zero issues. Most lavs use 1 gpm. At a certain point it's just hurting things.

2" is fine nothing to worry about just some info.

Most lavs we use 2" just for the plain fact that it doubles as the vent for the toilet in a preferred situation. This also allows for flexibility on the vertical venting rules.

 

[Markos]

Venting the shower and toilet: