New Weird Sediment...Ideas?

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Mr. Mud Maker

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I used the search function but didn't find anything that gave me solutions or ideas so I figured I'd try posting. Thanks in advance!

Issue: Weird sediment/fibers clogging sprinkler screens and water filters. It didn't occur before putting in new well pump.

Backstory:
The well (unknown age, 95 foot depth, water starting around 45 ft.) had clear water but the pump (3/4hp Franklin) could not get it to pressurize our tank above 50psi.

Had a professional pull the pump which was heavily corroded and found it was placed on the bottom of the well. (97 ft. of pipe in a 95ft. well.) and someone had installed a 5GPM restrictor valve about 30 feet down. He cut roughly 12 ft. of pipe out, removed the restrictor valve and put in a new pump (1/2 hp Berkley/Pentair 10GPM)

There was also the issue of weird looking "roots" that were in the casing we estimate somewhere below the 45 ft. depth because they were saturated/wet. He said in 40 years of doing wells he hadn't seen before.

Since the install about 3 weeks ago, The pump builds pressure no problem and I would like to install the CSV to prolong my pump and have good constant pressure but there is a lot of fibers/sediment that are coming up. I've run north of 1000 gallons since installing the new pump and it isn't getting better but I've had to replace at least 3 "whole house filters" because they've become clogged.

Just this morning I ran the hydrant outside for about 30 minutes at full force and noticed that the water went from clear (with just the fibers) for about 15-20 minutes to murky.

Any ideas?

If it matter, our water is around 105-110 Grains per gallon hard. No coliforms, 15ppm Nitrates. No smell, tastes salty. I am located in central Kansas, typical well depth for my area is 100 ft. give or take.
 

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Reach4

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The well (unknown age, 95 foot depth, water starting around 45 ft.) had clear water but the pump (3/4hp Franklin) could not get it to pressurize our tank above 50psi.
What diameter is the well, and how far down is it cased? It sounds like you have a bad casing in the top 10 ft below ground. There are few plants that send roots deeper than 10 ft. I am not a pro.
 

Mr. Mud Maker

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What diameter is the well, and how far down is it cased? It sounds like you have a bad casing in the top 10 ft below ground. There are few plants that send roots deeper than 10 ft. I am not a pro.

I have no information on how far the casing extends. Only that the visible casing seems good, it appears to be 5" PVC. It doesn't appear that anyone in my area is interested trouble shooting as the response I've gotten from local "professionals" is to get another well dug.
 

Bannerman

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Suggest continuing to run the yard hydrant and any other exterior faucet(s) that is supplied before the sediment filters. This should allow the pump to pump at the highest flow rate possible without cycling, until the water consistantly runs clear with no further sediment. That may require several hours or more to further develop and clear the well.
 

Reach4

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Do not use cellulose filter cartridges on a well. Those are for chlorinated water.

Maybe save up your crud, and stir that into a glass of water later. The settling time will be useful in deciding what kind of filter would be useful. There are washable elements.

The reason I was asking about the diameter is I was wondering if a PVC liner would be practical. I don't know if you could put a 3 inch pvc liner into a 5 inch well, and use a 3 inch pump.

For now, I would do as Bannerman suggested-- run the spigot for many hours, as long as the well does not run dry.


There is a way to blow accumulated sediment up and out like a geyser, using a big engine-driven air compressor.
 

Mr. Mud Maker

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Thank you folks for the ideas. I will run my 3 yard hydrants this weekend and see how it goes.

Not sure it makes a difference but the filter wasn't Cellulose, it is a polypropylene. If I can't get the water to clear up, then I'm looking at investing in a spin down filter > Backwashing sediment filter and hoping those two things will help. "(Unless that is stupid!)
 

Reach4

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Not sure it makes a difference but the filter wasn't Cellulose, it is a polypropylene.
The reason I suspected cellulose was the big wrinkle.

filter > Backwashing sediment filter and hoping those two things will help. "
A backwashing filter can double-up with filtering against sediment under maybe 100 or so, and iron and H2S. Different media. If just filtering for sediment, fine. But while you are at it, maybe it could do double-duty.

Some media takes more gpm for backwash, which the pump needs to produce.
A spin-down filter would be good if a lot of the sediment in your shake/stir test settles quickly. Some of these are easier to clean than others.
 

Mr. Mud Maker

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The reason I suspected cellulose was the big wrinkle.


A backwashing filter can double-up with filtering against sediment under maybe 100 or so, and iron and H2S. Different media. If just filtering for sediment, fine. But while you are at it, maybe it could do double-duty.

Some media takes more gpm for backwash, which the pump needs to produce.
A spin-down filter would be good if a lot of the sediment in your shake/stir test settles quickly. Some of these are easier to clean than others.

From what I've seen looking around, Zeolite would be an appropriate media. Am I off-base? The small fiber like sediment does settle pretty quickly, when introduced into a bucket via a hose, 40-50% of it is already settling to the bottom within 10-20 seconds of pulling the hose out.

I realized it looked like I meant one over the other after I hit post. I'm thinking at this point, if the weekend pumping doesn't clear it, then I'll get both filters. Thanks so much for the help!
 

Bannerman

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Here is a type of spindown that maybe of interest. There is also a battery operated purge option that will automatically flushout sediment on a daily schedule.


With regard to backwashing media, while primarily utilized to eliminate iron, manganese and sulfur, Katalox Light is also an effective sediment filter media that will remove particles down to 3-5 microns.
 

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If you can't get the well to clean up your pumps won't last long. It is hard or almost impossible to clean roots out of a well. I agree you would be better off to bite the bullet and drill another well.
 

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If you can't get the well to clean up your pumps won't last long. It is hard or almost impossible to clean roots out of a well. I agree you would be better off to bite the bullet and drill another well.
How would you think a well would get roots in it?

I wonder if the well cap was off, and vegetative matter got in from above somehow.
 

Mr. Mud Maker

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I ran the pump for 1.5 hours last night at roughly 9.5gpm (max volume it would pump without dropping below pressure switch cut in)

The water had the thin fiber looking material for the first 20 minutes then it got murky for about 10 minutes then the fibers returned. After 30 minutes pumping the water smelled like sewage (only when I smelled the inside of the 5 gallon bucket I was pumping into.) I couldn't smell it in the air or on my hands.

About 15 minutes later that smell went away and didn't return The fibers lessened but never went away. Roughly 40 minutes into the well pump sand came up and would settled to the bottom of the bucket.

At 1.5 hours of pumping I accidently turned the hydrant all the way on and it used too mucb water shutting off at the pressure switch(square D with the little lever on the back of it).

I attempted to restart it and it wouldn't work. Called the pro in and found roots tangled up the pump.

Looks like I'm getting a new well.... Yay? Tha ks again for all the ideas
 

Reach4

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At 1.5 hours of pumping I accidently turned the hydrant all the way on and it used too mucb water shutting off at the pressure switch(square D with the little lever on the back of it).
If you are not in danger of running your well dry, I would either get a pressure switch with no lever, or modify your current pressure switch to eliminate the low-pressure cutoff.
 

Mr. Mud Maker

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If you are not in danger of running your well dry, I would either get a pressure switch with no lever

Got a new switch installed. Pump still having issues possibly due to it getting clogged up with roots.

When lower the pump back into the well at roughly 50 ft. The pump hit something and took a lot of maneuvering to go further. Then at 75 to 80 ft. It hit something else.

Best guess is the casing is collapsed?

I'm uploading a picture of a contract for a new well. Wanted to know if their method was decent. The price seems reasonable. (I blacked out and identifiable information to keep the company private. Just in case.)
20210831_211508.jpg
 

Reach4

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There is no mention of a pitless adapter. There is no mention of connecting the house to the pitless. No mention of running wires to power the pump. The plan may be to splice into the existing wires.

So are those things then separately billed, or is there another business that handles those things?

I would fear that a high flow screen would mean big slots.

Gravel is matched to the slot size and slot size is matched to the size of the sand or other sediment that is being filtered out by the gravel and slots. Gravel here is not the stuff you would put on a driveway.
 

Valveman

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Like Reach said, as long as the screen and gravel pack are sized properly, not just "high flow" screen installed, it looks good to me. The pitless and wire are usually done by the pump guy on a different contract.
 

Mr. Mud Maker

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So are those things then separately billed, or is there another business that handles those things?I would fear that a high flow screen would mean big slots.
/QUOTE]

They did tell me I'd need an electrician to wire everything and a plumber to connect to the house or existing lines though nothing was mentioned about the pitiless adapter. Thanks for mentioning that!

As for the gravel size and screen this company has been in business for decades and was recommended by all the service folks I've had at my place in the last few months so I'm assuming/hoping that means they know what they're doing!

Thanks for the knowledge you guys share, made this a little less traumatizing
 

Mr. Mud Maker

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Didn't want to start a new thread since I'm still having issues so figured y'all have been a huge help so I'd ask here.

Got the new well dug on Sept. 2nd. Pump installed etc. Sept. 3rd.

Well: 92 Ft. depth. Static Water Level: 54. Yield thus far approximately 6.5-7.2 GPM

Casing: 6" PVC all the way down with the bottom 30ft having thousands of mill cut slots in the casing.

Pump is: 1hp, 20gpm Pentair/Meyers/Berkley.

Cycle Stop Valve (in casing style) purchased and received.

Issue: Have lots of sand/fines in the water and not sure best way to develop the well.

I tried running it connected to a hose for 36 hours and the water did run clear, so opened the valve to the house and viola, sand/fines in the water.
I am currently (as much as possible) opening the hydrant located 8 ft. from the casing and it runs at between 25-31 gpm for about 4:40-5:20 minutes then loses pressure due to falling water level so I have to shut it off since I don't want to hurt the pump. The last 1 minute of each cycle is very full sand/silt/fines, the middle minutes are clear with only minimal sand/fines.

Since the pump can "outpump" the well all day, do I just let it run at about 5 gallons a minute and deal with the pump cycling on/off all day long while I develop this thing or is the method I've been using the best I Can hope for in this situation?

Going on 2 weeks with no usable water for my family of 6 kids/wife/chickens/cats.
 
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