New Toilet Paralysis by Analysis

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Matt Forman

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Hi all,

I currently have a 15 year old AS 1.6 GPF low consumption toilet (unsure of the model) that is driving me nuts and I'm looking to replace. Basically it clogs often, and the flush cycle takes 15 seconds just to clear the bowl - so I'm looking for something with a more reliable, faster flush, and while I know I'll need to spend some, I'm trying not to spend a small fortune, especially since I'll pay for install as well. I'm not a good DIY, and would rather have someone come in and do it right. But I don't mind paying a bit more for quality or if I know I'm getting a better product.

I've been looking primarily at Home Depot's site, and am looking at a few options. With size constraints in the bathroom, I'm looking for a round toilet, standard height (I'm about 5'5", Wife is 5'1", so the "comfort height" models are sometimes a touch high. I'm leaning towards something with a 3 inch flush valve, as I'll subscribe to the bigger is better theory, and an MaP of 500 or more sounds like it should be plenty sufficient. I'm also looking for the Water Sense seal.

In looking at the options on HD's site, I've come across a number of options, and cannot figure out which is best... Most everything below meets or exceeds my specs from above.

Kohler Wellworth Classic Complete Solution - $150 - K-11464-0 - A complete set (includes seat and hardware), and the least expensive, but may need to purchase connectors (based on HD's site). - Class Five Flush

Kohler Wellworth 2 piece, 1.28 Round - $175 - K-3997-0 - A little more expensive than the Complete Solution, and does not include the seat. It does include the bolts. Unsure about the Wax Ring. Class 5 flush. 3.25" Flush Valve

Kohler Cimarron with Aqua Piston Flush - $199 - K-3887-0 - Most expensive Kohler. Does not include Seat or Hardware. And at comfort height, it might be a little too tall (need to measure my wife from the knee down to be sure her legs won't dangle).

Toto Entrada - $177 - CST243EF - Height could be an issue, and not labeled as water sense, but it is a 1.28 GPF with 1000 MaP. Seat and hardware not included. But - it is a Toto, which I know is one of the top Toilet Brands. HD's site claims a valve size of 12, which I know can't be right. I'm assuming it is 3, like the other Toto models below. It also claims a width of less than 15, which is much narrower than all the other models - I'm assuming HD made some data entry errors on this one, and its measurements are closer to that of the Drake.

Toto Drake 1.6GPF 2 Piece - $208 - CST743S01 - It is a Drake, which I know is a highly respected model. No MaP rating provided, and not Water Sense (but it is the same as the AS I'm looking to replace). Seat/Hardware not included

Toto Drake 1.28 GPF Eco - $237 - CST743E#01 - Like the Entrada, not labeled as Water Sense, but is 1.28 with 1000 MaP. Seat and hardware not included, but, as noted, it is a Toto....

I'm kind of leaning towards either the Wellworth Complete Solution (Least expensive and all hardware included), the Entrada, or the Drake 1.6... for basic use (as it is just the two of us) - are they all decent? and are there any benefits of going with one brand/model over the other? I believe both brands are fairly well respected and put out good product.

Any general thoughts (or experience with the above models) would be appreciated...

Thanks in advance!
 

Reach4

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Toto Entrada - $177 - CST243EF - Height could be an issue, and not labeled as water sense, but it is a 1.28 GPF with 1000 MaP. Seat and hardware not included. But - it is a Toto, which I know is one of the top Toilet Brands. HD's site claims a valve size of 12, which I know can't be right. I'm assuming it is 3, like the other Toto models below. It also claims a width of less than 15, which is much narrower than all the other models - I'm assuming HD made some data entry errors on this one, and its measurements are closer to that of the Drake.

https://terrylove.com/pdf/cst423ef_spec.pdf

Toto Drake 1.6GPF 2 Piece - $208 - CST743S01 - It is a Drake, which I know is a highly respected model. No MaP rating provided, and not Water Sense (but it is the same as the AS I'm looking to replace). Seat/Hardware not included
https://terrylove.com/pdf/cst743s.pdf

Toto Drake 1.28 GPF Eco - $237 - CST743E#01 - Like the Entrada, not labeled as Water Sense, but is 1.28 with 1000 MaP. Seat and hardware not included, but, as noted, it is a Toto....
https://terrylove.com/pdf/cst743e_spec.pdf
 
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Gary Swart

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A couple of thoughts. First, forget about MaP numbers. Anything over 500 is great. Second, don't let price be the deciding factor. A few dollars saved now could be a nightmare for the life of the toilet. I lean toward Toto, but other brands have been making improvements. As you age, added height will be appreciated, so go for Comfort aka Universal and ADA.
 

jadnashua

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A typical dining room chair is taller than comfort height. Keep in mind that when sitting, your knees aren't any further forward with an elongated toilet verses a round one, and you have a bit more room in front to do your duty.

Really low prices sometimes comes with nearly no decent engineering.
 

Terry

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Any of those will work better than what you have been using.
I would consider something standard height with someone 5'-1"
Or you can get a lift for the feet, they make those too. Today I installed a pair of TOTO Ultramax MS854114EG-01 one-piece toilets for a customer that has had them in her previous two homes in California. These were in Woodinville, just a few miles from home for me. She went with standard height again. Height will be part of your decision. That should eliminate some of the choices. I do like the trapways on the TOTO for directing waste downward.
 

SteveW

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If you spend any time poking around on this site, you'll see a lot of us are big TOTO fans. They just plain work.

I really like the TOTOs with the "Double Cyclone" bowl wash, and also lean towards the one piece models.

As discussed above, don't cheap out on this -- you will regret it.
 

DougB

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I have a one piece Toto Ultramax - now going on 7 years. Never once has clogged. The one piece is really nice to clean also. You have to buy the matching seat/lid separately.
 

Matt Forman

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Thank y'all for the thoughts and opinions. I'm leaning towards the Drake 1.6, and then the Entrada. Dropping the Kohler as Toto does have a great reputation.
 

WJcandee

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The Entrada is a best buy. I would strongly consider the elongated, unless you have an architectural constraint (like the door hitting the thing). Even in a tight space, you will be happier with the elongated. I put a round Drake 1.6 (CST743S) in a tight space, and if I had to do it over again, I would have put in the elongated; it wouldn't have materially-affected my ability to get around/past it. (It was facing a bathtub and I was worried about making the distance between the two too small.) I put an elongated Drake 1.6 (CST744S) in another bathroom at the same time, and find it more comfortable to have that little extra space in front. You sit in the same spot, there is just a little more bowl in front.

It turns out that the round Drake went in the bathroom that is far and away the most-used in the house. Only after everyone began telling me how well the new toilet flushed did I realize that everyone had been using the clog-0-matic one in that bathroom on a regular basis. I actually started paying attention to bathroom usage by others and realized that this was indeed the most-used toilet in the house. That Drake has been there about 4 years now, and it still functions and flushes like the day I installed it. Zero issues with anything.

Love the Original Drakes! They flush well and look very clean and nice. Today, I might consider the Entrada, which uses a similar flush to the Drakes and is good quality for a little less money. But you can't go wrong with a Drake!

By the way, HD sucks when it comes to describing, marketing, selling Totos. Don't know why. Their prices for a long time were just bizarre when compared to what others were selling Totos for -- a great price on one, a ridiculously-high one on others. The ones you quoted were more in line with normal street prices and those at affordable merchants like Supply.

And their descriptions, as you notice, are also off. The Entrada is definitively Watersense-compliant, as is the Drake 1.28. Go to the EPA's Watersense web site here: https://www3.epa.gov/watersense/product_search.html?Category=2
Then select "Click to View Additional Search Options", select TOTO under the Brand, and select Drake as the model, click SEARCH, and you will see all the Drake versions that have a Watersense label. The E (1.28) one you are looking at is there. Do the same with Entrada, and you will see the same thing.

If you are going to order online and pick up at your local HD, do take the time to examine the product before taking it home, which is an advantage of picking the thing up at a merchant. That way, you can see any cracks or breakage before you get the thing home.
 
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Matt Forman

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Many Thanks wjcandee - your post was a great help. Between that (and taking some time to really surf through Toto's site) - my mind has changed again - and is leaning toward the EcoDrake - it is WaterSense, Standard Height (good for my - as she claims - vertically challenged wife), round bowl - which fits a little better in the house and space allotted. The elongated may only be about 1.5 inches longer (if I'm reading specs right), but the extra length isn't worth the extra cost IMO. I couldn't find any real advantage (such as better flush/rinse) when trying to compare elongated to round. Elongateds might be slightly easier to clean, but having cleaned round bowls for 20+ years, rounds aren't that difficult...
 

WJcandee

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Thanks for your nice words.

The advantage of the elongated is that the extra space in front makes it less cramped down there for we men.
 

Flapper

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It would be a good idea to get a toilet with standard parts, or standard sizes so you can fit standard parts. A lot of toilets have proprietary parts and are hard and/or expensive to repair.
 
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