New to softening - help verify Fleck 5810SXT settings

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, Questions and Answers' started by dukie564, Dec 5, 2018 at 6:59 AM.

  1. dukie564

    dukie564 New Member

    Joined:
    Wednesday
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Aberdeen, MD
    Hey all. I need some help optimizing my water softener settings after a recent install. A bit of background - my wife has had terrible eczema flares since we moved into our new house a few years ago. I've been working to assemble and install a treatment system for the past few months. It's finally all purchased, plumbed and operational.

    Here is my setup:
    3/4" main on city water, 45-50psi
    Plumbing is all 3/4" copper or 1" PEX
    2 ppl (soon to be 2+baby) - we currently use 65 gal/day on average.
    Twin 20" Pentek Big Blue filters
    - 25 micron Sediment (spun poly)
    - 5 micron Pentek EP-20BB Carbon Block

    Softener:
    Pressure tank is a 9x48 Structural
    1 cu.ft. of 8% cross-linked cation resin
    Fleck 5810SXT control valve

    New Water Test Results i just got (raw water from my outside spigot):
    (results were obtained using water treatment plant level equipment and methods)
    pH: 7.36
    Hardness: 61 mg/L
    Alkalinity: 30 mg/L
    Iron: 0.03 mg/L

    Current Valve Settings:
    DF: GAL
    VT: 5800
    RF: dF1b
    CT: Fd
    C: 22 (i think - not at the unit to verify right now)
    H: 20 (this obviously needs to be edited now)
    RS: SF
    SF: 15
    DO: 14
    RT: 1:30
    BW: 10
    BD: 60
    RR: 6
    BF: 18
    FM: t1.2
    RE: off
    VR: ff

    20181025_213748.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018 at 10:34 AM
  2. Bannerman

    Bannerman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Is the hardness 61 grains per gallon or 61 mg/L? Mg/L and ppm are equal. 1 grain per gallon = 17.1 mg/L

    Assuming 61 grains per gallon, a 1 cuft softener is not large enough. The hardness programmed will actually need to be increased due to hardness variances often observed in municipal water systems, and also due to inefficiencies when softening excessively hard water.

    Taking the baby into account, the softening load would be 65 gal X 3 ppl X 61 gpg = 11,895 grains/ day. With the softener currently configured to deliver 22,000 grains between regeneration cycles, it will need to regenerate every day. For efficiency, the usual goal is a large enough softener using appropriate settings to regenerate no more than 1X per week.

    The current programmed capacity could be increased to 24,000 grains, but that would still require regeneration every 2 days.

    The BLFC rate was not specified. That is often indicated on a label nearby to the brine connection. Common BLFC rates are 0.125, 0.25, 0.5 and 1 gpm. Anticipating a 0.25 gpm restrictor is installed, the 18 minute Brine Fill X 0.25 = 4.5 gallons entering the brine tank. Each 1 gallon will dissolve 3 lbs salt so your current salt dose would be 13.5 lbs. If an 0.125 gpm BLFC is installed, the salt dose would then be 6.75 lbs. To regenerate 22K grains will require 7 lbs salt whereas to regenerate 24K of capacity would require 8 lbs salt for your 1 cuft softener.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018 at 8:50 AM
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  4. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Get Hach 5B softness test to check actual softness. The 5-B has 1 grain resolution. They also have a kit that has 1 ppm resolution -- 17 times as much resolution.

    With your level of hardness and usage, the 1 cuft of resin is enough IMO. I would have gone with 10% crosslinked with your city water for longer resin life.

    System info (not programmed)

    salt lb/cuft : 7.875 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
    BLFC : 0.125 ; Brine Refill rate GPM (PROBABLE. Check it)
    cubic ft resin : 1 ; Same as (nominal grains/32,000)
    Raw hardness : 4 ; including iron etc
    Estimated gal/day ; 120 ; 60 gal per person prediction (auto-tunes)
    Est days/regen ; 49.51 ; presuming days each use estimated

    Fleck 5810SXT Settings:
    DF = Gal ; Units
    VT = 5810 ; Valve type
    RF = dF2b ; Downflow, Double Backwash ** a change
    CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
    C = 23.8 ; capacity in 1000 grains
    H = 4 ; Hardness grains after comp factor (61 grains not gonna happen in Aberdine, MD)
    RS = cr ; Cr = base reserve on recent experience
    DO = 30 ; Day Override (typ 30 if no iron/Mn) ** you will regen every 30 days usually.
    RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
    B1 = 5 ; Backwash 1 (minutes) [3...10]
    Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes
    B2 = 4 ; Backwash 2 (minutes)[3...10]
    RR = 6 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
    BF = 21 ; Brine fill minutes
    FM = t1.2 (usual) ; t1.2 is default flow meter
    RE = OFF ; Relay
    VR = OFF ; ?

    The BF value could be selected from one of these:
    lb/cuft ; C= ; BF=
    5.250 ; 18.6 ; 14 ** too lean for most users. More hardness leakage
    5.625 ; 19.3 ; 15
    6.000 ; 20.0 ; 16 ** for salt economy with acceptable hardness leakage.
    6.375 ; 20.8 ; 17
    6.750 ; 21.5 ; 18 ** existing setting... quite reasonable
    7.125 ; 22.3 ; 19
    7.500 ; 23.0 ; 20
    7.875 ; 23.8 ; 21 ** the one I picked due to sensitive wife
    8.250 ; 24.4 ; 22
    8.625 ; 25.1 ; 23 ** maybe something like this for a little more softening.
    9.000 ; 25.7 ; 24
    9.375 ; 26.2 ; 25 ** even more softening
    9.750 ; 26.7 ; 26
    10.125 ; 27.1 ; 27
    10.500 ; 27.5 ; 28 ** highest salt use shown here, but still not a lot of salt.

    Your injector should be one of these: I would check it if in doubt.
    #00 Injector - Violet
    #0 Injector - Red
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018 at 9:29 AM
  5. dukie564

    dukie564 New Member

    Joined:
    Wednesday
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Aberdeen, MD
    OK. Sorry about this - I had to go back and double check with the testing agent on the units for hardness.

    My hardness = 61 mg/L, so 3.6 GPG (~3.7 if adjusted for iron)
    I'm pretty confident that the test conducted by the water treatment specialist here at my work facility is using equipment and methods that far exceed or at least match what the Hach test kit can provide.

    I'll have to check when I get home on the BLFC rate. I know the system was initially programmed for 6.5lb/Cu.Ft., so the restrictor is probably a 0.125gpm.


    Is there a big benefit of the double backwash? All my water usage is metered so I try to conserve where possible.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018 at 10:37 AM
  6. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    They may have measured the hardness at one point in time. Sometimes they will report an average or a range. In that range case, you usually want to use the higher number.

    Also, with your own test, you could check the hardness of the softened water. Or are you saying that you can get any sample tested. In that case, that would be more accurate too.

    It is of some benefit to mix up the beads after brining. You currently have 10 minutes of backwash. I proposed 5+4=9 minutes.

    Your backwash rate will be 2 gpm. So 10 minutes per regen is 20 gallons every 30 days.

    https://www.aberdeenmd.gov/finance says
    Minimum Water – 3,500 gallons: $19.09
    Water rate over 3,500 gallons: $5.77 per 1,000 gallons.
    New Sewer Rates:
    Minimum Water – 3,500 gallons: $23.65
    Water rate over 3,500 gallons: $6.74 per 1,000 gallons.​

    So worst case, that is a little over $0.25 for 20 gallons, plus tax if that is charged. Maybe rates have risen.

    On the other hand, if you use only 65 gallons per day now, you are well under the minimum.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018 at 11:22 AM
  7. Bannerman

    Bannerman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Your hardness amount is at the extreme low-end where a softener would be of benefit, and far below where most people would even consider installing a softener, which is why I had anticipated 61 gpg.

    If you find the carbon cartridge filter is helping relieve your wife's eczema condition , you my wish to consider a backwashing carbon system containing 1.5 cuft of carbon media. Carbon cartridges contain too little media to be effective at the flow rates needed for a point-of-entry application, and they will require frequent replacement. The larger quantity of carbon in a backwashing system, will better remove more contaminates at a higher flow rate, and media replacement will not be needed for several years.

    https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/38-39
     
  8. dukie564

    dukie564 New Member

    Joined:
    Wednesday
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Aberdeen, MD
    Trying these settings...

    DF = Gal
    VT = 5810
    RF = dF2b
    CT = Fd
    C = 24
    H = 4
    RS = cr
    DO = 14
    RT = 1:30
    B1 = 6
    Bd = 60
    B2 = 4
    RR = 6
    BF = 22
    FM = t1.2
    RE = OFF
    VR = OFF

    Also found this sticker. BLFC is crossed out by the supplier. Injector 1?
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    If I had injector #1 Injector - White , I would try to get it replaced with a #00. A number 1 would probably have the brine all drawn in less than 9 minutes. By having the brine move through the resin more slowly, it will give more time for the ion exchange.

    You could look at it. Make sure the pressure is released before looking.
     
  10. dukie564

    dukie564 New Member

    Joined:
    Wednesday
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Aberdeen, MD
    Correction - the sticker is not accurate.
    #00 injector
    0.125 BLFC confirmed
     
  11. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Good!
     
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