New pump installed in apparently dry well, trying to figure out what to do.

[abearatemyparents]

I have kind of an odd situation and need some help, our pump died and a new one was installed by a well service that knew the well was too shallow, full of mud, and in an area where multiple neighbors have also had wells go dry recently. On top of that, they actually raised it up from where the old one was due to the mud.

It was after it was installed and paid for and not working that they decided to mention the water table was just too low and this kept happening nearby and all these other issues, and they didn't have an explanation when I asked why they went ahead and installed it knowing all that. Install a limiter that probably won't work anyway or drill a new well were the options he gave me.

So now I'm trying to figure out what to do. I'm in Missouri and talked to the Department Of Natural Resources who issue licenses and they don't really investigate this sort of thing, regarding the groundwater they said it's impossible to say with any certainty but it sounds like it could be sort of ok in the future and this is just due to drought as well as the lake we're at being lowered for dredging. Although neither the weather or the lake have been an issue previously so just hoping it gets better isn't really a long term solution. They also explained (and another, apparently much better, well company said this as well) that while technically you can get mud out of a well it's not really done because it's getting in the well from someplace and will just keep coming and most companies don't have the equipment to drill through whatever well lining it might have (it's an old well, don't really know what's down there) and in general you'd just drill a new one.

If anyone has any advice beyond just shutting off the well and letting a little bit of water build up so we can do dishes I'd love to hear it, but I guess at this point I'm mostly just trying to figure out how to proceed with this well company. I think my best option is filing a complaint with the attorney general consumer protection office, and I guess Better Business Bureau, leave bad reviews etc, but my understanding is the AG office will then contact them with the complaint and I'm afraid of jumping the gun by escalating things. They did kind of a crappy job in general, left all the old pipe in the driveway, didn't replace the old wires, etc. but I guess technically they did install the pump correctly so I'm not sure if they're liable for negligence here or something by putting it in knowing it likely wouldn't work and not saying anything? When I called another well driller to find out if it was possible to get the mud out or drill it deeper he eventually asked who did the work and did not have anything nice to say about them and said at the very least they should not have proceeded with the install after they saw the well.

Any help would be really appreciated!

 

[FredG]

The days of calling up a professional and expecting competence, are long gone. You have to do your research in order to avoid ending up in a situation like the one you’re in.

You probably don’t want to hear this, but it sounds like your only option is a new well. Was this one of the options they originally gave you?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

It seems to me that the well is old, so could have taken a long time to accumulate the mud.

1. How deep is the well reportedly?

2. How far down is the new pump?

3. How far down is the static water level?

One way to clean a well is to push1 inch pipe down, and blow air with a big engine-driven compressor, producing a mud+water geyser. I only read about it... I have no experience with it.

 

[SuperGreg]

It seems to me that the well is old, so could have taken a long time to accumulate the mud.

1. How deep is the well reportedly?

2. How far down is the new pump?

3. How far down is the static water level?

One way to clean a well is to push1 inch pipe down, and blow air with a big engine-driven compressor, producing a mud+water geyser. I only read about it... I have no experience with it.

I have heard about this, I have a very silty well and was hoping to clean it up. I've seen well companies on the other side of the country offering this service with pictures of them in action. Called local well guys and asked if they could do it, they say they've never heard of it. Ugh.

 

[FredG]

I think it’s possible, but just like a new pump down an old muddy well, it’s most likely throwing good money after bad. This well is also right next to his house(per his post on the other forum), so it’s not likely any reputable well outfit will take that risk on.
Since his well is only 95’ deep, he is probably money ahead to just bite the bullet, and start fresh.

 

[Reach4]

I have heard about this, I have a very silty well and was hoping to clean it up. I've seen well companies on the other side of the country offering this service with pictures of them in action. Called local well guys and asked if they could do it, they say they've never heard of it. Ugh.

Here are some videos:

 

[abearatemyparents]

To answer all the questions, the well is around 95 ft deep, they said the water level was 60ft and the new pump is sitting I think around 80-85ft. I did write up the whole story on the "other forum" as someone said as I mistakenly thought it was more active than this one. Since then I've pretty much accepted that I'm going to have to drill a new well so it didn't seem important to share the whole story, but I can if it would help. I appreciate the sediment geyser idea, the problem is that we don't know where the mud is coming from, if there's a crack in the lining the mud will just keep coming in, I don't know if that's repairable, but the other thing is I've been told very few people even have the equipment to dig out an existing pump or dig through the lining, and not knowing what, if any, that lining is, means it would be next to impossible to get someone to do it. I'm going to call around next week and start getting bids and looking at options so I'll try and find out more, but using the existing well, which is what I had wanted myself, doesn't seem like an option.

Again, right now I'm mainly trying to figure out if and how I can get a refund from this company. I hesitated to stop payment on the check because if they did technically install the pump correctly then we're liable and they come after us. The Department Of Natural Resources, which I've learned is who gives out licenses to well drillers, told me this guy was licensed and didn't do anything to violate their very narrow rules which are more about well digging than pump installation and said filing a complaint with AG was the way to go. Would love to hear other ideas if anyone has them.

 

[abearatemyparents]

The days of calling up a professional and expecting competence, are long gone. You have to do your research in order to avoid ending up in a situation like the one you’re in.

You probably don’t want to hear this, but it sounds like your only option is a new well. Was this one of the options they originally gave you?

Sorry to double post but yes, I immediately hated this guy when I first talked to him, but he seemed reasonable and more friendly in person, and was initially recommended by a very good plumber because he had some kind of tripod thing that would be able to access the well where it's at, which didn't work and he was a jerk about the much better real plumber that recommended him! Anyway with no running water, a recommendation for this guy, and a bunch of glowing reviews, panic set in and...well, it wasn't really my decision to hire him, but here we are.

The other driller I spoke to kept trying to not get involved, and I wasn't calling him to gossip about other drillers just to ask about removing the mud, but the more he heard of the story the less he could resist asking who it was and told me this guy took over for his grandpa and had no idea what he was doing, had to spend years just learning the basics of the job and has ripped a lot of people, including I guess several neighbors I need to try and get in touch with who all, I assume, have half-dry wells with brand new pumps in them.

 

[Reach4]

I appreciate the sediment geyser idea, the problem is that we don't know where the mud is coming from, if there's a crack in the lining the mud will just keep coming in,

How long was the well in service before mud became a problem?

If the issue take 30 years to accumulate enough mud, then maybe you could get the mud blown out every 30 years. Or maybe with the pump sitting lower, every 15 years.

the well is around 95 ft deep, they said the water level was 60ft and the new pump is sitting I think around 80-85ft.

That identifies that an air lift pump (which is slower but requires a much smaller air compressor) would not be able to lift out the mud.

300 CFM would be a good size for the geyser.

Industrial & Commercial Air Compressor Rentals | Sunbelt Rentals

Rent reliable air compressors for industrial and commercial projects. Choose from gas, electric, and diesel compressor models from Sunbelt Rentals today.

www.sunbeltrentals.com

Air Compressor Rental | EquipmentShare

Rent Air Compressor at EquipmentShare. Book online today for state-of-the-art equipment with unparalleled customer support and safety features

www.equipmentshare.com

 

[FredG]

From what you have described here and on the other forum, it sounds like the well doesn’t make much water anymore. Otherwise the pump he installed above the mud, would work for a while.

You really have no recourse for getting your money back, because you hired him, and agreed to replace the burned out pump.

In my experience, when a situation like yours comes up(bad pump plus dry well), 99% of people will want to go with a new pump just to see if it will work. The cost to drill a new well is something people will only do as a last resort.

 

[RetiredInGueydan]

How long was the well in service before mud became a problem?

If the issue take 30 years to accumulate enough mud, then maybe you could get the mud blown out every 30 years. Or maybe with the pump sitting lower, every 15 years.


That identifies that an air lift pump (which is slower but requires a much smaller air compressor) would not be able to lift out the mud.

300 CFM would be a good size for the geyser.

Industrial & Commercial Air Compressor Rentals | Sunbelt Rentals

Rent reliable air compressors for industrial and commercial projects. Choose from gas, electric, and diesel compressor models from Sunbelt Rentals today.

www.sunbeltrentals.com

Air Compressor Rental | EquipmentShare

Rent Air Compressor at EquipmentShare. Book online today for state-of-the-art equipment with unparalleled customer support and safety features

www.equipmentshare.com

Having water problems and trying to figure out what to do. Sorry if anything is inaccurate or I’m using the wrong terminology, I’m learning as I go from YouTube and trying to recall several phone calls with the well guy.

Short version: our pump recently died, had a well guy replace it. Now we can only get a few gallons of water before it goes dry and has to be shut off again, basically how the old pump was working before it died entirely.

They said the new one is higher than the old one due to mud. Water level was at 60ft and the pump is around 80 I think. The well is very old and around 95 feet. The well guy is saying the problem is the low water table (dry summer + lake we live at currently lowered for dredging) and a common problem in the area and that’s basically it. I’m trying to figure out what I can do, how much of what the pump guy is telling me is true, and what, if anything, he’s liable for as it seems his people knowingly installed a pump that might not work and didn’t bother telling us that.



Full story: about two weeks ago the water flow in the house started dropping seemingly at random, it would go down to a trickle then later be fine again, at times there would be no water at all, but it kept coming back, until it didn’t. I now know this was the pump dying. Not knowing this, I tried to check and fix what I could, refilled the air in the pressure tank, replaced the pressure switch, determined a breaker was bad and not getting proper voltage to the switch so replaced the breaker, still not working so replaced the wires, now it’s working but not getting voltage from the switch to the control box, replaced those wires, as well as the capacitor in the control box which was bad, I got to the point where as far as I could tell everything was working and a plumber I had been in contact with and came out and looked at it one point agreed. It was time to get the pump itself looked at and unfortunately because the well is right next to the house, without a lot of room and an uneven driveway, this plumber said he couldn’t get his truck to it and recommend a guy with a tripod that should be able to access it.

The guy had great reviews on Google but I got a bad vibe from him right away on the phone, he seemed condescending and dismissive of the other plumber who had recommended him, still I had him come out and look at it, he basically just showed up to confirm what I’d already told him, and said the pump motor seemed to be locked up and at the very least that would need to be replaced, possibly the pipe and wire as well, $3-4000 at the high end. He mentioned having done 2 or 3 other wells just down the street. Also they’d have to come in through the yard and use some kind of crane thing because whatever his tripod device is wouldn’t work on this well. It’s in a covered pit and there’s nothing down there besides the pipe and wires coming out of the house and going into what I guess is the well seal.

The next morning, yesterday, his guys came out (he wasn’t here) and replaced the pump. Did it in just a couple hours, didn’t really say anything besides they put a bleach tablet in it and the bleach would run out as we used the water. They left all the old pipe and the pump in the driveway. The water was working pretty much as it had before the old pump completely died, a few gallons at a time until it was dry and had to refill. Called the well guy who explained the water table was very low because of the dry summer and the lake we’re on currently being lowered for dredging and that the old pump had gotten too hot and burned out. The pipe right above it was burst, apparently from the heat, and that section of pipe was curved as well. I was able to confirm all that because they lefter everything laying in the driveway. Apparently there was some sort of blockage toward the bottom of the well that caused the curve in the bottommost pipe, he said “something had fallen in” likely mud as his team reported suction when they were trying to get it out. The new pump is sitting ~5ft above the mud. He suggested leaving the breaker to the pump shut off as long as possible to let the well recoup and see how it worked. Left it off overnight, around 14 hours, and used it pretty sparingly today until it ran out. Turned it off a couple more hours and got maybe 2-4 gallons out of it before shutting it off again and calling well guy back. Basically he said he could come put a limiter valve on it so it doesn’t pump as much water, which doesn’t sound like it would really help, or we need a new well drilled. He told me once mud was in a well it was just there and couldn’t be dug out, which doesn’t seem correct based on some quick searching. I asked why after seeing how shallow the well was and that it had this mud issue, and knowing that other houses nearby had the same trouble, they would go ahead and install a new pump knowing it likely wouldn’t work, take the money for the job, and then just leave without saying anything? He answered by telling me about the other houses’ issues and basically said there wasn’t anything he could do.

He had also initially told me they removed a 3/4 horse power pump and replaced it with a 1/2 horsepower pump because 3/4 was overkill, they did this without asking or telling us. Today he said he’d talked to his people and confirmed they replaced a 1/2HP with a 1/2HP. I’ll have to see if the pump itself says somewhere what the horsepower is as I’ve been unable to find any paperwork, it’s currently covered in snow. They didn’t even leave a receipt, said they’d email one but still haven’t so I don’t even have an itemized list of what they did. They apparently left the old wire because it’s still running through the control box with the new wire from the box to the pressure switch I had put in. I guess that’s fine, but given the other wires were quite old and went dead it’s a bit concerning they left it. It seems likely the pump burning up is what damaged the wires and breaker and everything as well, so I’m not sure how the wires down to the pump itself survived.

So now I’m trying to figure out what options I have. Apparently the neighbors are trying to talk to the lake about the problem, but this was evidently 2 or 3 months ago so it seems like maybe nothing was done. Hoping things get better with more rain and once the lake water level is brought back up doesn’t really seem like a permanent fix. Is there anything I can do myself to get it working better? Would it be possible to clear out the mud/dig the current well deeper? Do I have any recourse against the well guy for installing a new pump they likely knew wouldn’t work?

 

[Reach4]

Full story:

What is your post about? Are you for real with your own story? Your post mentions "95" also, so that made me wonder if that was a coincidence.

 

[RetiredInGueydan]

Having water problems and trying to figure out what to do. Sorry if anything is inaccurate or I’m using the wrong terminology, I’m learning as I go from YouTube and trying to recall several phone calls with the well guy.

Short version: our pump recently died, had a well guy replace it. Now we can only get a few gallons of water before it goes dry and has to be shut off again, basically how the old pump was working before it died entirely.

They said the new one is higher than the old one due to mud. Water level was at 60ft and the pump is around 80 I think. The well is very old and around 95 feet. The well guy is saying the problem is the low water table (dry summer + lake we live at currently lowered for dredging) and a common problem in the area and that’s basically it. I’m trying to figure out what I can do, how much of what the pump guy is telling me is true, and what, if anything, he’s liable for as it seems his people knowingly installed a pump that might not work and didn’t bother telling us that.



Full story: about two weeks ago the water flow in the house started dropping seemingly at random, it would go down to a trickle then later be fine again, at times there would be no water at all, but it kept coming back, until it didn’t. I now know this was the pump dying. Not knowing this, I tried to check and fix what I could, refilled the air in the pressure tank, replaced the pressure switch, determined a breaker was bad and not getting proper voltage to the switch so replaced the breaker, still not working so replaced the wires, now it’s working but not getting voltage from the switch to the control box, replaced those wires, as well as the capacitor in the control box which was bad, I got to the point where as far as I could tell everything was working and a plumber I had been in contact with and came out and looked at it one point agreed. It was time to get the pump itself looked at and unfortunately because the well is right next to the house, without a lot of room and an uneven driveway, this plumber said he couldn’t get his truck to it and recommend a guy with a tripod that should be able to access it.

The guy had great reviews on Google but I got a bad vibe from him right away on the phone, he seemed condescending and dismissive of the other plumber who had recommended him, still I had him come out and look at it, he basically just showed up to confirm what I’d already told him, and said the pump motor seemed to be locked up and at the very least that would need to be replaced, possibly the pipe and wire as well, $3-4000 at the high end. He mentioned having done 2 or 3 other wells just down the street. Also they’d have to come in through the yard and use some kind of crane thing because whatever his tripod device is wouldn’t work on this well. It’s in a covered pit and there’s nothing down there besides the pipe and wires coming out of the house and going into what I guess is the well seal.

The next morning, yesterday, his guys came out (he wasn’t here) and replaced the pump. Did it in just a couple hours, didn’t really say anything besides they put a bleach tablet in it and the bleach would run out as we used the water. They left all the old pipe and the pump in the driveway. The water was working pretty much as it had before the old pump completely died, a few gallons at a time until it was dry and had to refill. Called the well guy who explained the water table was very low because of the dry summer and the lake we’re on currently being lowered for dredging and that the old pump had gotten too hot and burned out. The pipe right above it was burst, apparently from the heat, and that section of pipe was curved as well. I was able to confirm all that because they lefter everything laying in the driveway. Apparently there was some sort of blockage toward the bottom of the well that caused the curve in the bottommost pipe, he said “something had fallen in” likely mud as his team reported suction when they were trying to get it out. The new pump is sitting ~5ft above the mud. He suggested leaving the breaker to the pump shut off as long as possible to let the well recoup and see how it worked. Left it off overnight, around 14 hours, and used it pretty sparingly today until it ran out. Turned it off a couple more hours and got maybe 2-4 gallons out of it before shutting it off again and calling well guy back. Basically he said he could come put a limiter valve on it so it doesn’t pump as much water, which doesn’t sound like it would really help, or we need a new well drilled. He told me once mud was in a well it was just there and couldn’t be dug out, which doesn’t seem correct based on some quick searching. I asked why after seeing how shallow the well was and that it had this mud issue, and knowing that other houses nearby had the same trouble, they would go ahead and install a new pump knowing it likely wouldn’t work, take the money for the job, and then just leave without saying anything? He answered by telling me about the other houses’ issues and basically said there wasn’t anything he could do.

He had also initially told me they removed a 3/4 horse power pump and replaced it with a 1/2 horsepower pump because 3/4 was overkill, they did this without asking or telling us. Today he said he’d talked to his people and confirmed they replaced a 1/2HP with a 1/2HP. I’ll have to see if the pump itself says somewhere what the horsepower is as I’ve been unable to find any paperwork, it’s currently covered in snow. They didn’t even leave a receipt, said they’d email one but still haven’t so I don’t even have an itemized list of what they did. They apparently left the old wire because it’s still running through the control box with the new wire from the box to the pressure switch I had put in. I guess that’s fine, but given the other wires were quite old and went dead it’s a bit concerning they left it. It seems likely the pump burning up is what damaged the wires and breaker and everything as well, so I’m not sure how the wires down to the pump itself survived.

So now I’m trying to figure out what options I have. Apparently the neighbors are trying to talk to the lake about the problem, but this was evidently 2 or 3 months ago so it seems like maybe nothing was done. Hoping things get better with more rain and once the lake water level is brought back up doesn’t really seem like a permanent fix. Is there anything I can do myself to get it working better? Would it be possible to clear out the mud/dig the current well deeper? Do I have any recourse against the well guy for installing a new pump they likely knew wouldn’t work?

This is his full description from the other forum.

 

[abearatemyparents]

Thanks everybody for answering. Getting a new well drilled, waiting to get it scheduled now. The new more reputable company is going to take the new pump that was just installed so we're not double paying, apparently the smaller ones are more expensive than the bigger one we'll need for a deeper well anyway. It turns out everyone around here is having the same issue, in calling a bunch of pump repair guys and well drillers I was told multiple times about all the different houses around here going dry this year or ones that got a new one drilled recently. Lot of old homes here with old shallow wells, so on top of the wells not being deep enough and the dry weather and everything else, as more and more deeper wells are dug here I guess the shallow wells get that much dryer.

 

[Reach4]

he new more reputable company is going to take the new pump that was just installed so we're not double paying, apparently the smaller ones are more expensive than the bigger one we'll need for a deeper well anyway.

Glad you are on track. A 5 or 7 gpm has more stages than a 10 or 20 gpm pump. So they are more expensive and longer.

What diameter well?

If the well is 5 inch or larger, you could check out a flow inducer. That is cheap. It is especially important if the well is top-feeding, but it is good anyway.