New pressure tank , new issue... can anyone help me understand

[Monimom]

Hi , I had a 27 yo pressure tank replaced as the previous one had a water trickle sound at the end of pumping, so I figured I better get it changed out... had a plumber do just that, changed tank, fittings valves etc..
3 times I have noticed now on different occasions while running bath water even at a slower flow, the water completely stops, and then withing a few seconds starts flowing again.... I haven't noticed anything else out of the norm, im going to "hang out" in the basement around the tank to see if anything is awry when it operates....
This NEVER happened with the old tank , I am slightly concerned... he said the tank is the same size as previous one, (and settings should be same)
before I call my plumber and bother him help me understand what could be the possible reasons for this??
Thank you : )

 

[LLigetfa]

Too much air precharge is often the cause of that. Air gauge needs to be calibrated to the water gauge. Precharge should be between 2 and 5 PSI less than the pump start pressure.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

When you say a few seconds, I presume it is more than two. Do you have a submersible (down the well) pump?

I suspect a clogged path to the pressure switch, so the pressure switch is delayed in getting the latest pressure. Or pressure switch is bad, such as from an internal clog.

If the gauge shares the same nipple, the clog could delay the pressure to both. So watch the pressure gauge as the pressure switch is ready to turn on. Note when the pressure switch click occurs.

If you don't want to watch over a period, you take a movie of the pressure gauge using your phone. The click should be audible.

 

[LLigetfa]

the previous one had a water trickle sound at the end of pumping

That symptom does not suggest a bad pressure tank unless water is leaking out of the tank wall and trickling onto the floor. My guess is there is more than one issue.

Another cause for a delay is when there is a leak in the pipe before a top-side check valve and water in the pipe is draining back into the well.

 

[Monimom]

That symptom does not suggest a bad pressure tank unless water is leaking out of the tank wall and trickling onto the floor. My guess is there is more than one issue.

Another cause for a delay is when there is a leak in the pipe before a top-side check valve and water in the pipe is draining back into the well.

Plumber said the diaphragm likely had a small tear, and that the tank was waterlogged .. it was on its way out so this was preemptive before other problems , I am hoping the precharge is the issue, as I have not had any other issues in the past. thanks for replying : )

 

[Reach4]

There can be more than one problem. Even if you have continuing symptoms, that does not mean the pressure tank did not need replacing. I don't see how the pressure tank alone can cure the several-second pressure loss. Now if your pressure stutter was less but seemed longer, the tank could be a cure.

 

[Monimom]

There can be more than one problem. Even if you have continuing symptoms, that does not mean the pressure tank did not need replacing. I don't see how the pressure tank alone can cure the several-second pressure loss. Now if your pressure stutter was less but seemed longer, the tank could be a cure.

So you are in disagreement with the precharge pressure causing this as suggested by LLigetfa ?

 

[Reach4]

So you are in disagreement with the precharge pressure causing this as suggested by LLigetfa ?

Air precharge is measured with the water pressure near zero.

A too-high precharge would cause a brief stutter in pressure, but not a few seconds.

Wait. show us a photo that includes the pipe from the well, the pressure switch, and the input to the pressure tank. One thing we will look for is a check valve. If you have an above-ground check valve, and a leak in the well, that can indeed cause a few second delay. We will discuss that further, if you have such a check valve.

Do you get a bang when the pump turns on?

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/check-valve-location.54228/

If you had no check valve before, and that was added, that could cause your symptom assuming another problem down the well also.

 

[LLigetfa]

There are four common reasons for a delay in the water arriving. The *exact* length of the delay can be a clue.

1. Air precharge too high.
2. Top-side check valve.
3. Constricted riser tube to pressure switch.
4. Mineral buildup under pressure switch diaphragm.

 

[Monimom]

Sorry for the delay in my reply series of unrelated events have kept me from getting back to this, I’ve spent a little bit of time watching the gauge , It appears it’s set at 40/ 60.. Comes on it looks like at about 38, but something interesting I’ve discovered is on one occasion When the pump went to kick on at 38 pressure dropped to zero momentarily and then came right back up maybe that is a clue of why this happens intermittently any idea what this could be? Thanks so much

 

[Valveman]

Your pump has cycled on and off all it is going to survive. The overload in the motor is tripping. It is auto-re-setting and the pump just magically comes back on when the overload cools down after a minute or so.

 

[Reach4]

You have a check valve on the new picture. You may have had one with the old picture. That was "2." in post #9 by LLigetfa. I am trying to remember if CT was the state that mandates a topside check valve, while many states forbid it.

If there is a leak in the check valve at the pump, or there is a hole in the pipe, the water can drop in the drop pipe, leaving a vacuum in the piping above about 32 ft (depends on weather and altitude) above the water surface. When the pump turns on, the liquid water takes time to reach the stuff in your photos.

There can be a bang.

If you remove, or disable the topside check valve, the problem may go away, or, the problem could get worse. If it gets worse, you would have to have the pump pulled and the pipe, or check valve at the pump, fixed.

This time between when the pressure switch turns on and the water arrives, would be fairly fixed. If the leak down the well is small, the time could be smaller if the time between pump runs is less -- less water would leak in a shorter time with a smaller leak.

It is also possible that there are two things wrong, and you get significant air in your water. I think you would have mentioned that.

 

[Monimom]

You have a check valve on the new picture. You may have had one with the old picture. That was "2." in post #9 by LLigetfa. I am trying to remember if CT was the state that mandates a topside check valve, while many states forbid it.

If there is a leak in the check valve at the pump, or there is a hole in the pipe, the water can drop in the drop pipe, leaving a vacuum in the piping above about 32 ft (depends on weather and altitude) above the water surface. When the pump turns on, the liquid water takes time to reach the stuff in your photos.

There can be a bang.

If you remove, or disable the topside check valve, the problem may go away, or, the problem could get worse. If it gets worse, you would have to have the pump pulled and the pipe, or check valve at the pump, fixed.

This time between when the pressure switch turns on and the water arrives, would be fairly fixed. If the leak down the well is small, the time could be smaller if the time between pump runs is less -- less water would leak in a shorter time with a smaller leak.

It is also possible that there are two things wrong, and you get significant air in your water. I think you would have mentioned that.

Yeah there’s no banging, and I don’t have any air , As a matter fact when my previous tank valve would click on it would make a clicking sound while the pump filled the tank this one does not do any of that,The brief interruption has only occurred four times that I can be certain of , And it is only a matter of a second or two , I suppose will have to call the plumber back I just want to know before I relay any of this to him what it could possibly be, reading all of these replies am I to assume that it’s been decided that too much pressure is not the problem ? Thank you

 

[Valveman]

Remove the check valve at the tank for sure. It is possible that could be causing the delay even though you are not seeing any air.

 

[Bannerman]

In addition to removing the check valve, also measure the tank's air pre-charge pressure. This is to be performed with a tire pressure gauge and with the pump disconnected from power and while the water system is drained so there will be no pressure remaining.

You said the pressure switch setting is 40/60 but also said the pump is not becoming activated until 38 psi. While the reason for the 2 psi discrepancy maybe due to the reasons already stated by others, the pressure switch could also be actually calibrated for 38/58. With only 38 psi pre-charge pressure in the tank, the tank will contain 0 water when the pump is being activated at 38 psi, so any further delay will cause the pressure to immediately drop to 0 psi.

Suggest either calibrating the pressure switch to 40/60, or decrease the tank's pre-charge pressure to 36 psi.

 

[Monimom]

In addition to removing the check valve, also measure the tank's air pre-charge pressure. This is to be performed with a tire pressure gauge and with the pump disconnected from power and while the water system is drained so there will be no pressure remaining.

You said the pressure switch setting is 40/60 but also said the pump is not becoming activated until 38 psi. While the reason for the 2 psi discrepancy maybe due to the reasons already stated by others, the pressure switch could also be actually calibrated for 38/58. With only 38 psi pre-charge pressure in the tank, the tank will contain 0 water when the pump is being activated at 38 psi, so any further delay will cause the pressure to immediately drop to 0 psi.

Suggest either calibrating the pressure switch to 40/60, or decrease the tank's pre-charge pressure to 36 psi.

I put a pressure guage on it and the reading was... pump on at 39 pump off at 60.... whats your thoughts ??

 

[Reach4]

When the pump is not running, compare the air pressure to the water pressure. They should be close. If more than a PSI apart, the calibration of one is off.

Anyway, the symptoms have reduced to a few seconds to one or two seconds occasionally.

If the problem is the pressure tank precharge being too low, and if there is not a leaky something in the well, I would expect a pressure stutter to be under a second.

If you are getting the occasional 2.5 second delay, I would suspect the down-hole check valve to have an intermittent small leak. Removing the innards of that topside check valve would probably cure that.

Anyway, with your cellphone, consider taking a movie (with sound) of your pressure gauge during drawing a bath. If you observe the pressure loss, review the movie. See how the timing of the pressure switch clicking compares with the pressure gauge action. It could also let you measure the duration of the pressure loss if your playback can be single frame. Many are not good at estimating the duration of 500 millisecond events.

 

[Valveman]

When it clicks on at 39, does the pump start running or is there a delay?

 

[Monimom]

When the pump is not running, compare the air pressure to the water pressure. They should be close. If more than a PSI apart, the calibration of one is off.

Anyway, the symptoms have reduced to a few seconds to one or two seconds occasionally.

If the problem is the pressure tank precharge being too low, and if there is not a leaky something in the well, I would expect a pressure stutter to be under a second.

If you are getting the occasional 2.5 second delay, I would suspect the down-hole check valve to have an intermittent small leak. Removing the innards of that topside check valve would probably cure that.

Anyway, with your cellphone, consider taking a movie (with sound) of your pressure gauge during drawing a bath. If you observe the pressure loss, review the movie. See how the timing of the pressure switch clicking compares with the pressure gauge action. It could also let you measure the duration of the pressure loss if your playback can be single frame. Many are not good at estimating the duration of 500 millisecond events.

The air pressure / water pressure is same

I don’t have the ability to know when this issue happens it’s only happened 4x that I’m aware of , The fact that I saw the gauge drop to zero was complete fluke it’s never done that since then… It’s very intermittent otherwise I would record it and time it to be precise with how many seconds

 

[Monimom]

When it clicks on at 39, does the pump start running or is there a delay?

When it clicked on at 39 I am going to assume the pump was running I have no way of being positive as it’s down in the well outside, but the pressure in the tank goes up which I assume means it’s filling with water