New iron filter or convert old softener

[davidl340]

I have had some serious iron issues in the past. This is my last water test result from a water well company.

Iron 0.33 mg/L

Tannins 0.1 mg/L

Silica 25.0 mg/L

Manganese 0.094 mg/L

pH 7.31


Another company wanted to sell me a CSI Nitro filter for $1900.

I have an old out of service water softener with a 9x48 tank. The valve looks to be a Fleck 5600MI that has a small leak I could probably rebuild.

Here is the question:
What do you guys think about:

1. Convert the water softener to a Iron AIO filter using something like Katalox light after rebuilding the valve
2. Get a used CSI Nitro filter for $1000 locally that was only used for a month (1 year old total)
3. Get a new 10x54" with a 5600SXT with Katalox light that goes for about $800 (many sources for this it seems)
4. Get the Pro-Ox 5900-BT-AIR 1.5 which looks to be a clone of the CSI Nitro and it sells for $1300 on sale.
5. With my history of iron bacteria, should I consider chlorine backwash and/or injection

I want something that is serviceable by myself, I am up to doing the work. Wouldn't mind saving a few bucks, but want something that works. I attached some pics of my old softener valve.

 

[Reach4]

Get a new 10x54" with a 5600SXT with Katalox light

The 5600 valves don't have enough backwash capacity for backwashing a 10 inch tank with KL, especially in a warm area. A 2510 does. Charlie Bosco, in Florida, recently reported that his KL AIO system, with a 10x54 tank, worked much better after increasing his backwash to 12.5 gpm. Most well pumps are not going to be able to deliver that. But I would think you would want a solid 10 gpm for backwash.

With my history of iron bacteria, should I consider chlorine backwash and/or injection

I would. It will be a lot cheaper to get the valve with the ability to draw bleach or H2O2 from a solution tank initially, than it would be to convert a valve with a filter (no brine or solution draw) piston and no injector.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[davidl340]

Most well pumps are not going to be able to deliver that. But I would think you would want a solid 10 gpm for backwash.

I just had a Grundfos 15SQ10-250 installed which in theory should be able to supply 12 GPM if I read the chart right.

Another option is I could get a new 5600SXT head and install it on my 9x48" tank and run Katalox light. The smaller tank should require less backwash volume right? My iron #'s don't seem too high right?

I would. It will be a lot cheaper to get the valve with the ability to draw bleach or H2O2 from a solution tank initially, than it would be to convert a valve with a filter (no brine or solution draw) piston and no injector.

. Hmm, guess I have some more to learn, how would this setup work?

 

[Bannerman]

What is the hardness of the raw well water?

A softener with a 9" X 48" tank will contain 1 ft3 of resin. The additional round label suggestss the salt setting was increased from 10 to 18 lbs but that quantity is excessive and inefficient.

An appropriately sized softener should be capable of more than 325 gallons (white dot location on capacity dial) before regeneration will be necessary, and use significantly less salt. The usable capacity to be programmed on the dial is conditional on the raw water hardness + some additional compensation for iron.

 

[Reach4]

Another option is I could get a new 5600SXT head and install it on my 9x48" tank and run Katalox light. The smaller tank should require less backwash volume right? My iron #'s don't seem too high right?

Yes, less backwash needed. Enough media? I don't know.

Your iron (SMCL=0.3) levels are of less concern than your manganese (SMCL=0.05) levels.

50% bed expansion is about where the backwashing media is hitting the top of the tank.

 

[davidl340]

What is the hardness of the raw well water?

Unfortunately I didn't see total hardness in the test results, I just attached them to this post. I did just go and use a pool water tester to test for total hardness and got about 75 ppm. When the softener was in service it used salt like crazy. It drains to the yard as there is no drain line at the pump shed so it was killing my grass also.

 

[Reach4]

Unfortunately I didn't see total hardness in the test results, I just attached them to this post. I did just go and use a pool water tester to test for total hardness and got about 75 ppm.

Get a Hach 5-B kit to measure hardness.

Test 2 parts distilled water and one part well water. Multiply the number of drops it takes to turn the solution from pink to blue by 3. That kit is useful for your raw water hardness, and also your softened water to check effectiveness later.

Then you will need to produce a compensated hardness number to use for programming the softener. That includes high-hardness, iron, and Mn compensations if the iron+Mn is not being filtered out.

 

[davidl340]

K. So you are thinking maybe an iron filter may not be necessary at .33 iron and .094 manganese? and should get a true hardness # and go from there? (possibly just fixing my salt water softener?) My main complain of the water is what looks like iron bacteria in the toilet tanks, lots of red buildup in the pipes and some light redish mineral build up on fixtures, also some rust like sediment.

BTW, the barely used CSI Nitro filter price dropped to $800

 

[Reach4]

My main complain of the water is what looks like iron bacteria in the toilet tanks and some light redish mineral build up on fixtures, also some rust like sediment.

For that, I would use some Iron Out. Iron Out crystals can be nice for removing rust stains. https://www.menards.com/main/grocer...59-c-7097.htm?tid=-6858576759625512627&ipos=3

The big bottle goes a long way.


Don't you drink the water? Some people like the taste of iron in water.

 

[davidl340]

We don't drink the water unless we filter it with a berkey. See this pic, in the house pipes it is similar. We don't want to drink this crap. It also destroyed our well pump but we can't help that. I can't get a straight answer from anyone on what is causing this... so that's why I was looking at an iron filter.

 

[Water Pro]

We don't drink the water unless we filter it with a berkey. See this pic, in the house pipes it is similar. We don't want to drink this crap. It also destroyed our well pump but we can't help that. I can't get a straight answer from anyone on what is causing this... so that's why I was looking at an iron filter.

seems to me like your iron levels are a lot higher than .33 mg/L with that level of buildup. you may have not tested a sample that's representative or your iron levels are fluctuating dramatically.

 

[Bannerman]

When you operate a private well, you are your own municipality. To identify treatment methods necessary and to ensure the safety of the water, a comprehensive lab test is advisable. As water conditions can change over time, a lab test should be performed at least every few years.

National Labs offer a standard well test package which is usually appropriate. http://watercheck.myshopify.com/?aff=5

 

[davidl340]

When you operate a private well, you are your own municipality. Prior to deciding on treatment methods and to ensure the safety of the water, a comprehensive lab test is advisable. As water conditions can change over time, a lab test should be performed at least every few years.

National Labs offer a standard well test package which is usually appropriate. http://watercheck.myshopify.com/?aff=5

Thanks, I did pay a well service to do a lab test which I posted here a while back. I am suspecting my well conditions are changing. I obviously have iron and/or sediment issues. I am leaning towards getting an iron filter based on the info we do know. The local well company wanted to install 13" AIO iron filter based on the test results I posted. I had some issues with them so I consulted with another, they also wanted to install a $2000 CSI Nitro AIO filter.

 

[ditttohead]

K. So you are thinking maybe an iron filter may not be necessary at .33 iron and .094 manganese? and should get a true hardness # and go from there? (possibly just fixing my salt water softener?) My main complain of the water is what looks like iron bacteria in the toilet tanks, lots of red buildup in the pipes and some light redish mineral build up on fixtures, also some rust like sediment.

BTW, the barely used CSI Nitro filter price dropped to $800

Guess why... don't waste your money on it.

 

[ditttohead]

A real water test is needed. http://watercheck.myshopify.com/?aff=5 well standard is fine. .3 ppm iron will not typically do the damage we are seeing in your plumbing but it is possible. Without a real water test we can only wild guess. I would highly recommend avoiding the majority of the online sellers, and stay away from the cheap Chinese knock off valves.

 

[Bannerman]

While pool test equipment is not appropriate for testing potable water, if we assume 75 ppm total hardness is correct, 75 / 17.1 = 4.39 grains / gallon hardness rounded to 5 gpg.

Each ppm of iron is equivalent to 5 gpg hardness and manganese is usually less but we'll assume 5 gpg also.

Iron: 0.33 + 0.094 Manganese = 0.424ppm X 5 = 2.12 gpg rounded up to 3 gpg.

Actual hardness 5 gpg + 3 additional = 8 gpg compensated hardness.

A 1 ft3 softener will require only 8 lbs salt to regenerate 24,000 grains usable capacity.
24,000 gr / 8 gpg = 3,000 gallons capacity regenerated per cycle.
Estimating 3 occupants each estimated to use 60 gallons day average = 180 gallons/day.

3,000 - 180 gallons reserve = 2,820 gallons setting possible on the capacity dial although due to the iron and manganese, regeneration should likely be 1X/week so 8 lbs salt/ week as opposed to 18 lbs salt every 2nd day as appears to have been occuring previously.

When iron and manganese is removed prior to the softener, then the capacity setting may be increased and the entire regenerated capacity utilized between each regeneration cycle.

Neither a softener nor iron filter media will kill bacteria. You mentioned iron bacteria but the full name is iron reducing bacteria as it will eat iron. Although IRB is not harmful to consume, it will typically result in a slimy residue where water sits for an extended time such as within toilet tanks. To kill IRB, a disinfectant such as chlorine will usually be utilized, followed by a back washing carbon filter to remove any residual chlorine.

 

[davidl340]

Thanks guys for the advice. I'll get some tests ran again. Think it is worth the $200 to get this https://watercheck.com/products/water-check, or just buy the Hach 5-B, an iron test kit and combine that with my existing test results?

 

[Reach4]

$200 to get this

Budget overnight shipping.

Well cleaning doesn't seem worthwhile?

What color is dirt in your area?

 

[davidl340]

Budget overnight shipping.

Well cleaning doesn't seem worthwhile?

What color is dirt in your area?

It is red clay here. That is my suspicion that this very fine red clay in the pipes, compounded by iron eating bacteria. Could be a well problem (casing issue).

I haven't specifically asked the local well driller about cleaning, they are so backed up it is ridiculous. I have had 3 well companies out when I had the pump replaced (pump got stuck, but turned out to be not a big deal), none of them really have suggested anything other than a filter that they sell.

 

[Reach4]

It is red clay here. That is my suspicion that this very fine red clay in the pipes, compounded by iron eating bacteria. Could be a well problem (casing issue).

Was there a dirty flood near your well? Height of casing vs flood level during hurricane? Well seals don't usually seal as well as you would hope. Yes, it could be a well problem, but you did notice the problem after the hurricane.

If you can pull the pump, you can probably consider doing well cleaning. You could rent a 275 cfm or so compressor. You may have a friend with a Ford F250 and an appropriate hitch. Run a 1 inch pvc pipe to the bottom (if you glue, know that glue does not reach full strength for quite a while). Have it, and any needed adapter, ready before picking up the compressor, because you would like to get that back in a day. Blow big. Big geyser. Take pictures and movies. Invite friends and family to take pictures at a distance. https://www.sunbeltrentals.com/equipment/subcat/20/air-compressors/ Show us the most impressive picture.

For slow, there is the air lift pump with a much smaller compressor. Still lifts sediment, but not spectacular.

Now if you take, for example, 50 grams of your sludge, medium acid will probably turn rust into liquid that would wash away. I don't think that would happen to clay. So you could do your own rough quantitative analysis. Maybe even try strong acid. Does muriatic acid dissolve your clay, and if no, how much of your sludge gets dissolved? Use your gram scale before and after. If muriatic dissolves your clay soil, maybe a weaker acid would be good for your analysis. Iron Out crystals come to mind.