New H2O Report fromKAR Labs 90

[Chris Joseph]

I could not find a Lab60 kit as some suggested but did a KAR90. This test came in very different from the one done by the well Driller when I was looking to install a system. The drillers report was 10gpg Hardness, 2PPM Iron and PH of 6.5.

The Kar Report was 13.1GPG Hardness, Iron was ONLY .05 mg/L (I believe this also equals PPM) and the PH was up to 6.7.

Both tests were taken right from the well, not thru any softeners...

1. I had a GE Conical Whole House filter inline, The type that uses an approx 8" by 4" tube to filter sediment. This filter would be caked with RED SLIME and show sediment at the bottom of the housing.

How does this happen if my Iron (according to KAR) is only .05 mg/L? Would some other combination of minerals/Hardness cause this? Or is .05 mg/L still capable of causing this effect?

2. Should I retest from KAR? Is there still a KAR 60?

Water test attached....

Thanks.
Chris

 

[Reach4]

I see they no longer offer kit-60 and offer kit-90. Same price. I expect this was to more closely align the name to the number of tests.

I don't know about your caked deposits. I suspect that most of the tests only looks at what is dissolved, except
turbidity, I guess. What color are your deposits on your filter? Rust red?

I saw "Turbidity 1.47 NTU " in your test. My kit-60 tests did not show that test.

I just compared. My kit 60 results did not include these:
Dysprosium, Erbium, Europium, Germanium, Hafnium, Holmium, Iridium, Lanthanum, Lutetium, Neodymium, Palladium, Platinum, Praseodymium, Rhenium, Rhodium, Rubidium, Ruthenium, Samarium, Scandium, Tellurium, Terbium, Thulium, Ytterbium, Yttrium, Chlorate, Color, Orthophosphate, Sodium ads. ratio, adjusted, Sodium adsorption ratio, Turbidity.

I don't know about those two sodium ratios. Most of the new items are pretty rare, and were below the detection level in your test. Turbidity is probably a useful number, but I don't know what your 1.47 NTU number tells you.

With 13 grains of hardness, you would benefit significantly from a water softener.

 

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[Chris Joseph]

I see they no longer offer kit-60 and offer kit-90. Same price. I expect this was to more closely align the name to the number of tests.

I don't know about your caked deposits. I suspect that most of the tests only looks at what is dissolved, except
turbidity, I guess. What color are your deposits on your filter? Rust red?

I saw "Turbidity 1.47 NTU " in your test. My kit-60 tests did not show that test.

Hi Reach.. Yes a Brownish Reddish Slime. Which indicates IRON to me.. Water flows Clear both out of the Well Pressure tank, and thru my Taps (never any red flowing water). It's only when I change the House Filter do I see this Thick, Heavy, Reddish Scum on all the folds of the filter.

That would tell me Ferrous Iron in greater amounts than indicated on this test, and when it's going thru the filter turns Ferric?? I would expect more than .05 mg/L results, and more in line with my original test that showed 2PPM (I read where PPM=mg/L)

 

[Reach4]

That would tell me Ferrous Iron in greater amounts than indicated on this test, and when it's going thru the filter turns Ferric??

The stuff you see is ferric ~ rust. I am expecting that it is coming up as ferric. Do you have a steel well casing or down pipe? If changing the filter

I wonder if any well tests show positive for platinum or gold. :-0 I kinda doubt it.

 

[Chris Joseph]

The stuff you see is ferric ~ rust. I am expecting that it is coming up as ferric. Do you have a steel well casing or down pipe? If changing the filter

I wonder if any well tests show positive for platinum or gold. :-0 I kinda doubt it.

Agree and the 1.47 Turbidity says, there is something suspended in the water. As below 1 is ideal. I have installed a Combo Iron Fitler/Water Softener Combo, so it's taking care of the iron. I just expected to see more Iron in the KAR result.

 

[Reach4]

Most people can taste 0.05 mg/L (ppm) of iron. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21301110 2.0 ppm would be a strong taste.

What is the part number of your sediment filter cartridge? I wanted to take a look.

 

[Chris Joseph]

Most people can taste 0.05 mg/L (ppm) of iron. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21301110 2.0 ppm would be a strong taste.

What is the part number of your sediment filter cartridge? I wanted to take a look.

I'd have to look when I'm home. I removed it from the system when I put in the Marlo Combo 25 since it states it takes out both Ferrous and ferric up to 25PPM. I emailed the KAR report to Marlo, and they responded saying I have a trace of Ferric, that is why I see the red. The filter was a larger size GE filter.

I Called KAR Labs and they said the results are both Ferrous and Ferric. They will restest my water just for Iron for $10.00. I need to send in a sample of drinking water and mail to them.. so...stay tuned..

 

[Bannerman]

Ferrous iron will be clear initially in the water but will be oxidyzed when exposed to oxygen. At that point it will start to turn red and will precipitate out of the water as Ferric iron (rust solids) which may be easily removed through filtration.

As you mentioned that the deposit is 'slimey', I then suspect IRB (Iron Reducing Bacteria). An IRB condition is often observed in toilet tanks. Although IRB is not harmfull when ingested, it does tend to stain and appear as not pleasant. As the softener will not remove IRB, you may need to chlorinate followed by a carbon filter to remove any residual chlorine as well as the ferric particles before it reaches the softener. As chlorine will also oxydize any Ferrous iron in the water, most if not all of the iron will be reduced prior to the softener.

 

[Reach4]

As the softener will not remove IRB, you may need to chlorinate followed by a carbon filter to remove any residual chlorine as well as the ferric particles before it reaches the softener.

How about sanitizing the plumbing, killing all IRB in the house, and having a 1 micron whole house filter on the incoming water to keep IRB from the well from getting past the filter?

 

[Chris Joseph]

Ferrous iron will be clear initially in the water but will be oxidyzed when exposed to oxygen. At that point it will start to turn red and will precipitate out of the water as Ferric iron (rust solids) which may be easily removed through filtration.

As you mentioned that the deposit is 'slimey', I then suspect IRB (Iron Reducing Bacteria). An IRB condition is often observed in toilet tanks. Although IRB is not harmfull when ingested, it does tend to stain and appear as not pleasant. As the softener will not remove IRB, you may need to chlorinate followed by a carbon filter to remove any residual chlorine as well as the ferric particles before it reaches the softener. As chlorine will also oxydize any Ferrous iron in the water, most if not all of the iron will be reduced prior to the softener.

Thanks.. More stuff to study.. I thought it was just slimey because it was wet.. So Ferric Iron doesn't appear as a residue on a filter? Is there a test for IRB?

 

[Reach4]

Ferric Iron doesn't appear as a residue on a filter?

Ferrous iron does not appear as residue on a filter. Ferric iron does. When you see ferric iron, you say "ick".

 

[Chris Joseph]

Ferrous iron does not appear as residue on a filter. Ferric iron does. When you see ferric iron, you say "ick".

Thanks Reach.. and I found this link, and my slime looks like the material pictured in the link.. Also, my toilet tanks are red but there is no slime build up on the top. I do see a little oily white stuff which could indicate bacteria. I also contacted KAR and they do a bacteria test. I if do have it, its not bad, and perhaps shocking the well will fix it for me.. from the KAR test I sure don't have a lot if Iron for them to feed off off...

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/is-this-iron-bacteria-or-just-iron-build-up.62762/

 

[Reach4]

I if do have it, its not bad, and perhaps shocking the well will fix it for me.. from the KAR test I sure don't have a lot if Iron for them to feed off off...

I would figure that IRB is pretty common, but as you say, you don't have that much for them to feed off of.

If you know somebody in high school, perhaps you could get them to look at a smear of your red stuff under a microscope. Is it a bacteria colony, or fine rust particles?

 

[ENIGMA-2]

As you mentioned that the deposit is 'slimey', I then suspect IRB (Iron Reducing Bacteria). An IRB condition is often observed in toilet tanks. Although IRB is not harmfull when ingested, it does tend to stain and appear as not pleasant.

Would that be something he should consider sanitizating his well for? Would the condition be alleviated if he did?

I had a new well put in about five years ago. The well driller took a sample with him to test. Said if they found bacteria they would need to come back and pour a chemical into the well, let it sit and then pump it clear. (They didn't find anything).
Had asked about the chemical, he said it was like Chlorax.

Anyway, if he killed the bacteria in the well, would that not stop it from getting into the home?

 

[Chris Joseph]

Would that be something he should consider sanitizating his well for? Would the condition be alleviated if he did?

I had a new well put in about five years ago. The well driller took a sample with him to test. Said if they found bacteria they would need to come back and pour a chemical into the well, let it sit and then pump it clear. (They didn't find anything).
Had asked about the chemical, he said it was like Chlorax.

Anyway, if he killed the bacteria in the well, would that not stop it from getting into the home?

Hi Enigma.. that's what I've read, that shocking the well will help with Iron bacteria. I really don't have a problem with it.. it is not overwhelming my home. I only saw this reddish sediment on an in line sediment filter, a bit slimey to the touch, but could be because it's just wet. There is no overwhelming smell, or huge buildup in my toilets or in any pipes. I was just wondering why, if I have such low Iron, I was getting this stuff on my inline cartridge filter. Anwser is .. it could just be wet sediment with some oxidation, or even bacteria. I may shock the will this summer as it's been a few years since I've done it...

 

[Richard Cropper]

Chris, I had the same problem recently. Noticed everytime my softener regenerated that I would get a "teaish/reddish" colored water coming into my house, I would then have to go back out run another regen cycle and it was fine till the next regen cycle. Then one day I noticed my RO system was getting increasingly slow. I pulled the sediment filter and it was what you described a red slimey subtstance on it. I ran the Kit60 test, everything was pretty much normal and nothing to write home about. After doing some research I chalked it all up to the IRB. Reach sent me the Moravec disinfection procedures. Figured out all my numbers, went up to the 150 SWV and 200ppm disinfection process. Also ran 1/2 cup of bleach and 1/4 vinegar thorough my softener twice and for the last 3 weeks have not had any problems. It used to be a weekly basis that I was getting that discoloration. Hope this help!

 

[Chris Joseph]

Thanks Richard