New controller & new pressure switch. Blew the new (start?) capacitor….

[Questionthat]

I have an older submersible well pump that has been out of service for a year or so. When i originally started it up it rain for awhile and then shut down and i couldnt getvit to start back up.
All the controls were pretty trashed so decided to replace the controller and the pressure switch.
Started it up and everything ran perfect until it approached 60 psi then the capacitor blew. Bummer!
So heres the deal….
At the junction box immediately where pump comes out of the ground, there are 3 insulated wires. Black, red and yellow. There is NO bare ground wire. These 3 wires are also connected to the same 3 types of wires in the junction box.
At the controller there is no yellow insulated wire, only black and white insulated and a bare copper conductor (normal type of ground wire).
I dont know where the change was made but assuming somewhere under the house. The breaker panel has black and white insulated wires.

When i was wiring up the controller everything seemed pretty straightforward for both the pressure switch and the controller with one exception.
Because i dont have a yellow insulated wire coming from the pump i didnt have a wire to connect to the yellow terminal in the controller…. So i was confused. So, i looked at my photos of how it was originally wired and saw that the bare copper wire was connected to the yellow terminal….. and the pump had worked normally for many years wired this way.
Read some stuff on two wire pumps so decided to experiment to see if i needed to connect a wire to the yellow terminal at all (just a ground wire….. i was thinking…..?).
So i just connected the bare ground to ground to see what would happen.
Well when i lit the pump up everything was running great….. so im thinking im a genius (lol) as im sitting there watching the gauge pump up…. 40, 50, 55 and BAM! Blown capacitor.
So now im thoroughly confused.
Do i buy a new capacitor and hook the bare ground to yellow and try again or what?
Anybody know what happened?
Is the capacitor in the 1hp controller a start capacitor? Run capacitor? Im assuming start for whatever reason. And now im thinking that it stayed engaged and thats what caused the capacitor to blow. And im thinking thats because i didnt hook the bare ground wire to the yellow terminal…. But i really have no idea.
All help appreciated. I really need a shower!

 

[Reach4]

Your story is a bit confusing.

A 2-wire pump does not use a control box, and therefore no capacitor. Does your story involve a 2-wire pump?

A 3-wire pump has 3 wires to the pump from the control box. Today you are supposed to also have a ground. If you have a 3-wire pump connected to the control box, and the capacitor blew up, I would replace the capacitor. The capacitor is a start capacitor.

You could also consider replacing the control box, which gets you a new capacitor and a new start relay.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

Your story is a bit confusing.

A 2-wire pump does not use a control box, and therefore no capacitor. Does your story involve a 2-wire pump?

A 3-wire pump has 3 wires to the pump from the control box. Today you are supposed to also have a ground on a new install. If you have a 3-wire pump connected to the control box, and the capacitor blew up, I would replace the capacitor. The capacitor is a start capacitor.

You could also consider replacing the control box, which gets you a new capacitor and a new start relay.

 

[Questionthat]

I have an older submersible well pump that has been out of service for a year or so. When i originally started it up it rain for awhile and then shut down and i couldnt getvit to start back up.
All the controls were pretty trashed so decided to replace the controller and the pressure switch.
Started it up and everything ran perfect until it approached 60 psi then the capacitor blew. Bummer!
So heres the deal….
At the junction box immediately where pump comes out of the ground, there are 3 insulated wires. Black, red and yellow. There is NO bare ground wire. These 3 wires are also connected to the same 3 types of wires in the junction box.
At the controller there is no yellow insulated wire, only black and white insulated and a bare copper conductor (normal type of ground wire).
I dont know where the change was made but assuming somewhere under the house. The breaker panel has black and white insulated wires.

When i was wiring up the controller everything seemed pretty straightforward for both the pressure switch and the controller with one exception.
Because i dont have a yellow insulated wire coming from the pump i didnt have a wire to connect to the yellow terminal in the controller…. So i was confused. So, i looked at my photos of how it was originally wired and saw that the bare copper wire was connected to the yellow terminal….. and the pump had worked normally for many years wired this way.
Read some stuff on two wire pumps so decided to experiment to see if i needed to connect a wire to the yellow terminal at all (just a ground wire….. i was thinking…..?).
So i just connected the bare ground to ground to see what would happen.
Well when i lit the pump up everything was running great….. so im thinking im a genius (lol) as im sitting there watching the gauge pump up…. 40, 50, 55 and BAM! Blown capacitor.
So now im thoroughly confused.
Do i buy a new capacitor and hook the bare ground to yellow and try again or what?
Anybody know what happened?
Is the capacitor in the 1hp controller a start capacitor? Run capacitor? Im assuming start for whatever reason. And now im thinking that it stayed engaged and thats what caused the capacitor to blow. And im thinking thats because i didnt hook the bare ground wire to the yellow terminal…. But i really have no idea.
All help appreciated. I really need a shower!

On closer inspection, the wires at the pump junction box are black red yellow (no bare ground) pump side and black, white with a piece of yellow insulated i BELIEVE attached to the bare ground wire hidden in electrical tape. I can remove electrical tape to verify if it becomes important but seems like in this case the yellow wire is ground and, for whatever reason i do need to hook up the bare ground wire to the yellow terminal.

Your story is a bit confusing.

A 2-wire pump does not use a control box, and therefore no capacitor. Does your story involve a 2-wire pump?

A 3-wire pump has 3 wires to the pump from the control box. Today you are supposed to also have a ground. If you have a 3-wire pump connected to the control box, and the capacitor blew up, I would replace the capacitor. The capacitor is a start capacitor.

You could also consider replacing the control box, which gets you a new capacitor and a new start relay.

Your story is a bit confusing.

A 2-wire pump does not use a control box, and therefore no capacitor. Does your story involve a 2-wire pump?

A 3-wire pump has 3 wires to the pump from the control box. Today you are supposed to also have a ground. If you have a 3-wire pump connected to the control box, and the capacitor blew up, I would replace the capacitor. The capacitor is a start capacitor.

You could also consider replacing the control box, which gets you a new capacitor and a new start relay.

My story might be a little confusing but i think i pretty much explained things.
Let me try and clear it up a little. I have no idea if this is technically a 2 or 3 wire pump. Its older. Maybe 20 years +/-. Was working fine when turned off about a year ago.
I just replaced both the control box and pressure switch (since they were looking rough/ corroded etc and because when i tried to put it back in service it ran for a bit (up to x pressure) and then shut down. Never cycled.
When i started with new controls it blew the new start capacitor (thanks for setting me straight on that.
The pump has 3 wires. Black, red and an insulated yellow. The wires connected to the pump at the junction box are black, white and a bare copper ground wire. So no yellow wire to connect to the control box. I connected the bare ground wire to ground but the original box had the bare ground wire connected to the yellow terminal. Could my connecting the bare ground wire to ground rather than the yellow terminal somehow cause the start capacitor to blow? Is it ok to connect the bare ground wire to the yellow terminal like it was before?
I dont think replacing the capacitor or the control box is going to fix the problem.
My thinking is the problem is either going to be fixed by connecting the bare ground wire to the yellow terminal (after replacing the capacitor again) or i have issues with the pump (which i did not have when i took the pump out of service).
I guess the big question would be if in the past (as you mentioned older pumps did not require the extra ground wire) the pump had bare ground connected to yellow if that is a workable solution…. Because it worked before.

 

[FredG]

It sounds like you have a short in that bare yellow wire. If it really is a 3 wire pump(which it sounds like it is since there is a control box), then there should be 3 wires going to the motor from the control box. If there were a ground, a fourth bare wire would also be there.

 

[Fitter30]

Capacitor blew because it was probably stuck in start mode.Here is a you tube video how to ohm out a compressor that has the same style motor. To figure out which is the common ,start and run windings. Also would check first motor wires to ground.

How to Test Single-Phase Motor Windings

In this episode, Keith walks us through how to test and check motor windings on a single phase motor. If you suspect your motor is starting to fail, it could...

www.google.com

 

[Valveman]

A three wire motor needs a control box, a two wire motor does not. Ohms between the three wires on a three wire motor should add up. The two lowest readings add up to the highest reading like a 2, 5, and 7. If it is a two wire motor the ground or yellow will show a short to ground. But if it had a control box to start with, it is probably a three wire and needs the control. However, if the bare wire is shorted it cannot be used as the yellow.

 

[SuperGreg]

A three wire motor needs a control box, a two wire motor does not. Ohms between the three wires on a three wire motor should add up. The two lowest readings add up to the highest reading like a 2, 5, and 7. If it is a two wire motor the ground or yellow will show a short to ground. But if it had a control box to start with, it is probably a three wire and needs the control. However, if the bare wire is shorted it cannot be used as the yellow.

How would you test that a wire to the motor is shorted to ground, aside from measuring between the wire and the motor casing?

 

[Reach4]

How would you test that a wire to the motor is shorted to ground, aside from measuring between the wire and the motor casing?

If you have a steel casing, measuring the resistance from any of the three wires to ground would be good. Ideally you would use a special high-voltage ohmmeter (megger) but few people have those. You would want to make sure the probe was making good contact with steel vs corrosion or paint.

If you were measuring from elsewhere, such as the the control box, you could use some other ground based on a pipe or rod going thru the earth.

You could even push one probe into moist earth directly, if you are measuring from outdoors.

 

[SuperGreg]

If you have a steel casing, measuring the resistance from any of the three wires to ground would be good. Ideally you would use a special high-voltage ohmmeter (megger) but few people have those. You would want to make sure the probe was making good contact with steel vs corrosion or paint.

If you were measuring from elsewhere, such as the the control box, you could use some other ground based on a pipe or rod going thru the earth.

You could even push one probe into moist earth directly, if you are measuring from outdoors.

Ah, using conductivity through the water to the casing?

 

[Fitter30]

Ah, using conductivity through the water to the casing?

Casing is also in the dirt just like a ground rod. Have a file? Clean a spot off to bare steel. If the pump motor was grounded circuit would of tripped if pressure switch was made and tripped while you flipped it on. If switch was open then closed contacts would also be burnt along with a tripped breaker. Did you ohm out the motor?

 

[Reach4]

Ah, using conductivity through the water to the casing?

Yes. If there is electrical leakage, it passes through the water. But even if you had a pvc casing, there will be an electrical path into the earth to carry any leakage.