New Air Tank vs Goulds Aqua Boost II System?

[RogerPDX]

I've got a pump bolted to the top of a pressure tank, that sucks water out of my cistern and pumps it into a bladder pressure tank. I put that system together in 1978. It still works, but since I am building a new pump room I'm thinking about a new pressure tank vs a booster system.

I have seen the Goulds Aqua Boost ll system, which eliminates the need for a pressure tank. That sounds good, since the pressure tanks don't last forever, and the Aqua Boost seems efficient - but it turns on & off every time somebody turns on a faucet.

■ Does anybody have long term experience with the booster system?

■ Do those expensive booster pumps and control panels last a long time?

■ If I replace my bladder tank, I'd like to make sure whatever I replace it with something that is going to last a long time. How long is a 'long time 'with the booster systems?

■ Is there a better brand than the Goulds Aqua Boost ll?

■ If the booster systems aren't all that good, which pressure tank manufacture is the best these days? I think my tank in an AO Smith with a Sears pump on top - all made in America. It's lasted a long time.


Thanks for your answers.

 

[Reach4]

The Well-X-Trol is the top pressure tank. Made in USA. Bigger is generally better in pressure tanks.

For a 1 pipe-to-the-well jet pump system, you want the pump 25 feet or less above the water surface. Consider mounting the pump at floor level and perhaps put the pressure tank on a shelf etc above if you want to gain a few more feet of margin.

I don't know about the Aqua Boost system.

 

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[Valveman]

If your system has worked since 1978, why are you changing anything? I can assure you that variable speed Aquaboost will have to be replaced half a dozen times in that same amount of time. Variable speed type pumps are not as efficient as regular pumps. It will actually use more energy per gallon than a standard pump. If you want something that sounds fancy, cost a lot, and doesn't last very long the Aquaboost is for you. If you want something to save you money and last a long time, stay with a standard pump system and just make sure to reduce the cycling on/off as much as possible.

 

[RogerPDX]

The Well-X-Trol is the top pressure tank. Made in USA. Bigger is generally better in pressure tanks.

For a 1 pipe-to-the-well jet pump system, you want the pump 25 feet or less above the water surface. Consider mounting the pump at floor level and perhaps put the pressure tank on a shelf etc above if you want to gain a few more feet of margin.

I don't know about the Aqua Boost system.

Reach,
I don't use my present jet pump to pump out of my well, it pumps out of a cistern that sits next to it and the pressure tank. I have no room to install the tank on a shelf. Can I install the pressure tank on the floor, and mount the jet pump next to it, on the floor?

 

[Reach4]

Up top again will be good.... since your water surface is plenty high enough relative to the pump. With the cistern along side, there would definitely not be a lift problem.

 

[RogerPDX]

Up top again will be good.... since your water surface is plenty high enough relative to the pump. With the cistern along side, there would definitely not be a lift problem.

Thanks. I'm hoping someone who knows the booster system pops in here, as I'd like to compare that method too.

 

[Valveman]

Thanks. I'm hoping someone who knows the booster system pops in here, as I'd like to compare that method too.

I am very familiar with variable speed type pump systems, which is why I would never use one. Your first clue should be that all the pump manufacturers are heavily pushing those because they make a lot of money from them, which means it is not a good thing for the end user.

 

[RogerPDX]

I am very familiar with variable speed type pump systems, which is why I would never use one. Your first clue should be that all the pump manufacturers are heavily pushing those because they make a lot of money from them, which means it is not a good thing for the end user.

Thanks for your reply. What would you suggest?

 

[Valveman]

Thanks for your reply. What would you suggest?

Stay with the same kind of system you have. If you want constant pressure and reduced cycling you can add a Cycle Stop Valve (CSV1A).

 

[Reach4]

An alternative would be to put a submersible pump into the cistern. This could go horizontally. This would be much quieter than the jet pump. It would never have a priming problem.

If you could get one with smaller than 1/2 HP, you probably would choose that. The submersibles are much more efficient than a jet pump. For shallow use, a "15 gpm" 1/2 HP submersible pump might produce 20 GPM, so you would want a large tank with maybe 18 gallons or more of drawdown if you did not use a CSV with it.

 

[RogerPDX]

An alternative would be to put a submersible pump into the cistern. This could go horizontally. This would be much quieter than the jet pump. It would never have a priming problem.

If you could get one with smaller than 1/2 HP, you probably would choose that. The submersibles are much more efficient than a jet pump. For shallow use, a "15 gpm" 1/2 HP submersible pump might produce 20 GPM, so you would want a large tank with maybe 18 gallons or more of drawdown if you did not use a CSV with it.

Thanks for the info. Are you saying to put the pump horizontally because of draw down? Would I actually need a pressure tank if I used a submersible pump?

 

[RogerPDX]

Stay with the same kind of system you have. If you want constant pressure and reduced cycling you can add a Cycle Stop Valve (CSV1A).

Valveman, Thanks very much. I 'think' I understand this...

 

[Reach4]

Thanks for the info. Are you saying to put the pump horizontally because of draw down? Would I actually need a pressure tank if I used a submersible pump?

Yes. Yes.

You might want to put the submersible pump into a piece of 4 inch PVC pipe with the top closed to form a flow inducer sleeve. Thin sewer pipe is OK. This is for cooling of the motor by forcing the input water to flow by the motor. With a 1/2 HP pump, this is probably unneeded, but it could not hurt. With a CSV it could be more significant. Search for that flow inducer term for discussions.

 

[Valveman]

Valveman, Thanks very much. I 'think' I understand this...

People who sell those variable speed type pumps count on it being so complicated that customers don't understand. And when they tell you VFD's save energy they are outright lying, and just preying on people who don't understand pumps but want to do the right thing.

Variable speed drives will save energy when used on things like air conditioner compressors and positive displacement devices, but when used with a regular pump, VFD's are nothing but a marketing gimmick.

 

[RogerPDX]

Valveman, Thanks for your input. I appreciate it. I understand my present system pretty well, so changing would be a new learning curve! I don't understand how the Cycle Stop Valve (CSV1A) that you mentioned works. Can you explain it to me please?

 

[Valveman]

CSV is a simple valve with a complicated explanation. You put it on the discharge of the pump and it turns the pump into a variable flow pump. Your pump will probably put out about 15 GPM. So every time it comes on it is pumping 15 GPM. If you have a 60+ gallon size tank that holds about 15 gallons of water, the pump will come on at 40 psi and run for about 1 minute until the pressure is 60 psi and the pump shuts off. If you are using a 5 GPM shower, the other 10 GPM fills the tank for about 1.3 minutes and the pump shuts off. Then your 5 GPM shower drains the 15 gallons out of the tank in 3 minutes, and the pump starts again. Cycling is what you call it when the pump goes on and off. So even with a big tank like that your pump is cycling about every 4 minutes. This 4 minute cycle can be a real problem when using water for long periods of time. There are 1440 minutes in a day, so a 5 GPM usage would make the pump cycle 360 times in 24 hours. And it will cycle much more if you have a smaller tank.

The CSV would be set at 50 PSI. So the tank would drain from 60 to 40 and the pump would start like normal. But instead of quickly filling the tank to 60 where the pressure switch shuts off the pump, the CSV would hold the pressure at 5o and the pump would run continuously as long as the shower or any water is being used. When the shower or water is finally turned off, then the CSV would let the tank fill at 1 GPM to 60 PSI and the pump would be shut off.

So instead of the pump continually cycling on and off and the pressure continually changing from 40 to 60/60 to 40 while the shower is on, the CSV would hold the pressure at a constant 50 PSI for as long as the shower is on. Holding a steady 50 PSI makes the shower pressure seem so much stronger, people tell me they no longer need soap, the dirt is just blasted off of them.

Pumps are made to run continuously. It is cycling on and off that destroys pumps. Cycling also destroys tank bladders, pressure switches, check valves, start capacitors, etc.. So not only does the CSV hold a more enjoyable constant pressure for the house, it makes the pump and everything else last longer. And because the CSV makes the water go right past the tank to the shower, a much smaller tank can be used. We normally only use a 4.5 gallon size tank that holds 1 gallon of water. But you can use any size tank you want.

 

[RogerPDX]

Great explanation. Thanks.
Are the CSV's cheaper than a booster pump?
I have my pump set at 30/50 which we like. Can the CSV be set at 50?

 

[Valveman]

Great explanation. Thanks.
Are the CSV's cheaper than a booster pump?
I have my pump set at 30/50 which we like. Can the CSV be set at 50?

A couple hundred bucks will get you the top of the line, Stainless Steel CSV1A. But it can't be used instead of a booster pump, the CSV works with a booster or well pump. The CSV basically mimics the function of a Variable Speed Controller for the pump. The CSV holds a steady, constant pressure by varying the flow from the pump, the same way a VFD does. Except that the CSV is completely mechanical, using only a spring to control the pressure compared to a VFD using a computer to control the speed of the pump. When it comes to pump controls, the simpler the control, the more likely water is to come out of your faucets. The more computerized and complicated the control, the more likely you are to wake up and not be able to flush the toilets or take a shower.

With a 30/50 pressure switch you would set the CSV at 40-45, depending on the size of the pressure tank.

 

[RogerPDX]

The pump I have used to remove water from my cistern and get it into my pressure tank is a shallow well jet pump. Do these CSV's work with this type of pump?

 

[Valveman]

Yes of course. Subs, jet pumps, centrifugal, etc.