New 1/2 horse pump 115v 2 wire not working...

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misterC

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The plug is not the problem.

I don't know what is. The Red Lion uses a Franklin motor. The Franklin AIM manual shows a 2 wire 1/2 HP 115 volt pump to have about 1.0 to 1.3 ohms. The rest would be wire. So the ohms don't look out of line. So I don't know if the problem is the pump or the generator.

Nice...thanks for the ohm info on the Franklin manual. I tried calling Franklin to ask what the required startup amperage is for my pump but weekend and labor day tomorrow.

I'm leaning towards the generator theory due to the pump being brand new. That would be horrible if it was faulty. Lol
 

Reach4

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Nice...thanks for the ohm info on the Franklin manual.
I suggest you download the Franklin AIM manual. Page 13 of the 2015 version has the ohm info, but there is more things that you may find useful.
 

Bgard

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I measure in between 1.8 - 2.0 ohms when it's down the well.

Yes, I used a shrink tube for each wire. 2 hots and the ground. Then to be sure i wrapped it with scotch pro rubber tape and finished layer of scotch 33.

Using a torch set on low was a breeze the second time for the shrink tubes. The manufacturer is crazy to recommend a bic lighter.

I think my 3500 watt inverter generator isnt enough amps to get through the startup phase when it's first turned on. It's trying to start though. So I'm hoping it's not a faulty pump.
are you using an inverter or generator? a inverter won't handle the start current
 

misterC

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......it's a plastic pump available from Amazon for $299.00, I'm not surprised that it doesn't work.

Lol damn. I got it off water pumps direct website. It should work at least once then.

It's only temporary while we develop this raw acreage and has a 2 yr warranty. I needed a 115v pump to run on a generator until the county graces us with an electrical permit. Which they won't do until septic is done.

When we get power I'm going with a 240v for obvious reasons.

What pump brand would you recommend? All the pumps I've seen are in the $500-700 range, which is still cheap because they should last several years.
 

Craigpump

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The last thing I would install is an off brand pump.

List price on a Grundfos 1/2-7 2 wire 230 volt is $1078.00. Best pump on the market.
 

misterC

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I talked to a Franklin motor engineer this morning and my pump requires a ridiculous 64 amps for around a half second. My generator can handle roughly half that.

Looks like I'm waiting for power...but at least i know what the issue is.
 

Craigpump

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I talked to a Franklin motor engineer this morning and my pump requires a ridiculous 64 amps for around a half second. My generator can handle roughly half that.

Looks like I'm waiting for power...but at least i know what the issue is.

I'm not so sure. Franklin motors typically draw far less on start up than a Grundfos motor and we have plenty of 115v 1/2 horse Grundfos motors starting on a 20 amp breakers.
 

Ballvalve

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The last thing I would install is an off brand pump.

List price on a Grundfos 1/2-7 2 wire 230 volt is $1078.00. Best pump on the market.

http://www.wwpp.co/website-closeout-specials/closeout-15sq15-290.html If I ever paid $1,000 for a 1/2 hp pump, I am sure I road into town on a pumpkin cart. Here is a grunfos 1.5 hp for $699 delivered. Notice its made in Mexico. talk to trump about that. But next to it is another 1.5 hp 5gpm made in Denmark for $699. I should buy that! And here is the ridiculous 115 volt grunfos for $639 http://www.wwpp.co/grundfos/2-wire-...-stainless-submersible-deep-well-pumps-1.html

And here, a Myers 1/2 hp 3 wire with cap start that your genset would start easily - for $469. Have one running for 20+ years now. [mine is 240v] This is 120 volt, incredibly, with a capacitor start - that gives you that 1/2 second shot of power you need.
If you want to support India, they have Shakti pumps, copies of grunfos for chump change. Save 115 volts for your table lamp. We are the only - nearly- country in the world foolish enough to not wire up houses in 240 volts. Americans waste thousands of tons of copper each year because of this primitive 120 system. http://www.wwpp.co/myers-products/p...3st51-8plus-p4-predator-3-wire-pump-assy.html
 
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Ballvalve

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The generator is hooked up to 200ft of extension cord, so I'm guessing it's losing voltage due to the long cord.

I'm going to try and plug the generator directly to the pump wire and see if that works.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

I got a thought: is your extension cord US made 6 gauge or at least 10 gauge? If not you are just warming up the lawn. I wouldn't run a skilsaw on a 200 foot standard cord [16 or 14 gauge Chinese copper covered aluminum wires that measure more like 18 gauge] You need a capacitor start pump motor and move the genset to the pump. Run a cord to your hand tools.
 
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Craigpump

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http://www.wwpp.co/website-closeout-specials/closeout-15sq15-290.html If I ever paid $1,000 for a 1/2 hp pump, I am sure I road into town on a pumpkin cart. Here is a grunfos 1.5 hp for $699 delivered. Notice its made in Mexico. talk to trump about that. But next to it is another 1.5 hp 5gpm made in Denmark for $699. I should buy that! And here is the ridiculous 115 volt grunfos for $639 http://www.wwpp.co/grundfos/2-wire-...-stainless-submersible-deep-well-pumps-1.html

And here, a Myers 1/2 hp 3 wire with cap start that your genset would start easily - for $469. Have one running for 20+ years now. [mine is 240v] This is 120 volt, incredibly, with a capacitor start - that gives you that 1/2 second shot of power you need.
If you want to support India, they have Shakti pumps, copies of grunfos for chump change. Save 115 volts for your table lamp. We are the only - nearly- country in the world foolish enough to not wire up houses in 240 volts. Americans waste thousands of tons of copper each year because of this primitive 120 system. http://www.wwpp.co/myers-products/p...3st51-8plus-p4-predator-3-wire-pump-assy.html

Good job of misleading someone.

The reason the list is $1078 is because the customer is paying someone to install & warranty the pump. The installer has to make enough profit to stay in business to warranty the pump if need be. Maybe, you can change a pump, but most can't, don't have the knowledge, equipment or the desire to do so.

The SQ series is a 3" pump, they have been made in Mexico long before Trump took office.

The only thing your 20 year old Myers and a new Myers have in common is the name. The new one is built on the Berkeley/StaRite/Myers platform with a CentiPro motor, which by the way is made in Mexico. Again, a long time before Trump was elected.

As for the wire, 400' is the max run length for awg 14, if the generator is close to the well, it should run the pump.
 

Ballvalve

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Good job of misleading someone.
The reason the list is $1078 is because the customer is paying someone to install & warranty the pump. The installer has to make enough profit to stay in business to warranty the pump if need be. Maybe, you can change a pump, but most can't, don't have the knowledge, equipment or the desire to do so.

The SQ series is a 3" pump, they have been made in Mexico long before Trump took office.

The only thing your 20 year old Myers and a new Myers have in common is the name. The new one is built on the Berkeley/StaRite/Myers platform with a CentiPro motor, which by the way is made in Mexico. Again, a long time before Trump was elected.

As for the wire, 400' is the max run length for awg 14, if the generator is close to the well, it should run the pump.

You may get $1078 for it, but you are still charging separately for install. If you can get it, why not? But in this age where people can call up a price for a well pump out the forest up a mountain in 3 seconds -on their "Phone" - means a whole new ballgame in nearly all industries.

I am not misleading him - he is the installer so he might as well get the most for the least. Cant run much of anything on a 200' 16g extension cord... Maybe a small drill or a charger. Levi's made their jeans in New Mexico for 20 years. The moment that they opened the border they were packing the sewing machines up for Honduras. and the Honduras model cost the same as the USA one. Greed -- pump makers ditto. square D pressure switch same betrayal of the US. Trump, nutcase that he is, might get some of those guys back with tariffs.

Only place I would put a 115v submersible 2 wire is in a cistern or a hand dug well. This guy needs a capacitor and real wire to the well.
 

Reach4

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You may get $1078 for it, but you are still charging separately for install. If you can get it, why not?
If the well person reduces the pump price by $500 and increases the installation price by $500, there would seem to be a savings in sales tax -- presuming there is not an equal services tax.
 

misterC

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A few days ago i had the generator hooked directly to the well wire with no luck. 10 gauge submersible wire down 150ft.

I pulled the submersible out and put back the old 1hp shallow well pump. It ALWAYS works. Even on my 2000watt generator. The shallow pump is 10amps as well...The reason why it works on my small generator with 200ft of thick extension cord is because the startup amps required on the shallow well pump is waaaay less than the 10amp submersible, which needs 65amps to start up. All I can provide is 30amps via gen.

And yes...i know...115v for a well pump is stupid. I knew it before I even ordered it. But we have no power, hate loud 8500watt generators, already have 3 generators and I can't have loud obnoxious noise through the valley in the morning for my neighbors sake.

The biggest gen i have is a super quiet 3500watt invertor generator that provides 25amps. The problem is, the invertor gens do not spit out 240v. And that's why I ordered a 10amp, 115v submersible pump. I would not even consider 115/120v pumps if i had power. All they do is take up more space in a panel and require shitload of juice to start up.

Thanks for the suggestions. I will consider them when I get actually have power and buy another pump, which will be 240v for the house.

We have 2 wells on the 5 acres and I'll use the 115v red lion strictly for the garden in the future.
 

misterC

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The generator is hooked up to 200ft of extension cord, so I'm guessing it's losing voltage due to the long cord.

I'm going to try and plug the generator directly to the pump wire and see if that works.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

I got a thought: is your extension cord US made 6 gauge or at least 10 gauge? If not you are just warming up the lawn. I wouldn't run a skilsaw on a 200 foot standard cord [16 or 14 gauge Chinese copper covered aluminum wires that measure more like 18 gauge] You need a capacitor start pump motor and move the genset to the pump. Run a cord to your hand tools.

Yes, it the thickest gauge I could get my hands on. I doubt it's US made as it's from home depot. Haha.

Not ideal but works with my 1horse 115v shallow pump considering my circumstances.
 

Ballvalve

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A few days ago i had the generator hooked directly to the well wire with no luck. 10 gauge submersible wire down 150ft.

I pulled the submersible out and put back the old 1hp shallow well pump. It ALWAYS works. Even on my 2000watt generator. The shallow pump is 10amps as well...The reason why it works on my small generator with 200ft of thick extension cord is because the startup amps required on the shallow well pump is waaaay less than the 10amp submersible, which needs 65amps to start up. All I can provide is 30amps via gen.

And yes...i know...115v for a well pump is stupid. I knew it before I even ordered it. But we have no power, hate loud 8500watt generators, already have 3 generators and I can't have loud obnoxious noise through the valley in the morning for my neighbors sake.

The biggest gen i have is a super quiet 3500watt invertor generator that provides 25amps. The problem is, the invertor gens do not spit out 240v. And that's why I ordered a 10amp, 115v submersible pump. I would not even consider 115/120v pumps if i had power. All they do is take up more space in a panel and require shitload of juice to start up.

Thanks for the suggestions. I will consider them when I get actually have power and buy another pump, which will be 240v for the house.



We have 2 wells on the 5 acres and I'll use the 115v red lion strictly for the garden in the future.

Your 2000 watt genset does not provide 30 amps at 120 volts:
How to convert Watts to Amps or Amps to Watts or Volts to Watts
Basics

You cannot convert watts to amps, since watts are power and amps are coulombs per second (like converting gallons to miles). HOWEVER, if you have at least least two of the following three: amps, volts or watts then the missing one can be calculated. Since watts are amps multiplied by volts, there is a simple relationship between them.

However, In some engineering disciplines the volts are more or less fixed, for example in house wiring, automotive wiring, or telephone wiring. In these limited fields technicians often have charts that relate amps to watts and this has caused some confusion. What these charts should be titled is "conversion of amps to watts at a fixed voltage of 110 volts" or "conversion of watts to amps at 13.8 volts," etc.

Some tidbits of information that you might need a refresher on:
To convert mA to A (milliamps to amps) 1000mA = 1A
to convert µA to A (microamps to amps) 1000,000 µA = 1A
To converter µA to mA (microamps to milliamps) 1000µA = 1mA
To convert mW to W (milliwatts to watts) 1000mW = 1W
To converter µW to W (microwatts to watts) 1,000,000 µW = 1W


The Following Equations can be used to convert between amps, volts, and watts.
Converting Watts to Amps

The conversion of Watts to Amps at fixed voltage is governed by the equation Amps = Watts/Volts

For example 12 watts/12 volts = 1 amp
Converting Amps to Watts

The conversion of Amps to Watts at fixed voltage is governed by the equation Watts = Amps x Volts

For example 1 amp * 110 volts = 110 watts

Converting Watts to Volts

The conversion of Watts to Volts at fixed amperage is governed by the equation Volts = Watts/Amps

For example 100 watts/10 amps = 10 volts

Converting Volts to Watts

The conversion of Volts to Watts at fixed amperage is governed by the equation Watts = Amps x Volts

For example 1.5 amps * 12 volts = 18 watts
 

Craigpump

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We put quite a few 115volt 2 wire pumps in, did one today as a matter of fact. Started right up, and did everything it's supposed to. Draws more amps but..... if you have a customer whose short on funds and doesn't want to rewire it's the way to go.
 
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