New 1/2 horse pump 115v 2 wire not working...

[misterC]

Hello everyone,

Just installed a Red Lion 1/2 horse, 115v, 2wire submersible pump to a depth of 160ft this morning.

Model #RL12G05-2W1V.

10 amps / 670 watts

I installed the heat shrink splice kit (did a horrible job im pretty sure as it was windy and they suggested a bic lighter to heat the shrink tube) provided by the pump manufacturer and a 15amp 120v male plug onto the end of the wire by the well seal. (To run it off a generator)

After getting way too excited that the job is done,I plugged it in to the 2000watt generator expecting glorious water. But nothing....The generator acted like nothing was plugged in at all.

So I figured it didn't have enough starting amps to start the pump and bought a 3500 watt generator. Still nothing?!

I'm now worried there is a leak in the splice? Or the 15 amp/120v plug isn't right?

I know its ghetto, but the county won't hook our power up until the septic is completed. Which is weeks away. And have to run off a plug via generator for now.

Does anyone know the startup amps required for a pump like mine? Would I still need a pressure switch? Sorry for the ignorance and....

Thanks in advance!

 

[Reach4]

Check the ohms across the flat blades of your plug.

Water getting into your splice is unlikely to cause your symptom.

Franklin calls for a 2.25 KW 2.85 KVA generator for an "internally regulated" generator for a 1/2 HP 2 wire pump.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[misterC]

Check the ohms across the flat blades of your plug.

Water getting into your splice is unlikely to cause your symptom.

Thanks for the reply...

Do you think the generator is not big enough?

I have a multimeter and voltmeter and will check tomorrow. However, it's like reading egyptian to me. What do I look for?

 

[misterC]

I can't rest until I know what the issue may so I checked ohms/continuity with a headlamp on.

Turns out there is an open loop in the wiring somewhere. Which means I suck ass at heat shrink splicing.

Off to the hardware store I go to get more splice kits tomorrow morning.

 

[Reach4]

I can't rest until I know what the issue may so I checked ohms/continuity with a headlamp on.

Turns out there is an open loop in the wiring somewhere. Which means I suck ass at heat shrink splicing.

Off to the hardware store I go to get more splice kits tomorrow morning.

Understand that this problem is not from the heat-shrinking part, but it is from the splicing part.

shows the person both crimping and soldering. This is not the usual way to do it. Usually just crimping is done I think. This person is being extra-sure.

 

[Craigpump]

Forget the BIC lighter, use a handheld propane torch. Hold the flame about 8" away from the tube and heat the tube evenly from the center out.

 

[LLigetfa]

This is not the usual way to do it. Usually just crimping is done I think. This person is being extra-sure.

Nothing wrong with doing both. I actually don't like to crimp at all. I wrap the wires around each other and just solder using a torch and then heat shrink with the same torch. I use the following method.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Master-a-perfect-inline-wire-splice-everytime/

BTW, I don't care for how the guy in the video is using the wire stripper backwards. The stripper has a flat side and an angled side. The flat side IMHO should be on the short side being stripped off.

 

[Craigpump]

The only time we solder wires is when we're using #6 or bigger wire.

 

[misterC]

Well....(no pun intended) I pulled the pump out and found the bad splice. Fixed it and have continuity. The ohm is reading 2.0.

Plugged it in to the generator and it accepted the load, which is around 25amps on startup. But still no water?

Is there anything I need to do to get the submersible primed and pumping? The pump says it's self priming.

The generator is hooked up to 200ft of extension cord, so I'm guessing it's losing voltage due to the long cord.

I'm going to try and plug the generator directly to the pump wire and see if that works.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

 

[Boycedrilling]

Soldering in addition to crimping doesn't hurt, but it is not needed with properly crimped connectors. It's kind of a belt and suspenders approach. I have added solder to the crimped connection before just to add physical strength to the joint. But I probably haven't done that in 15-20 years.

I do NOT use a lighter or propane torch to heat the shrink tubing. I only use a hot air gun. You can buy one for twelve bucks at harbor freight. I've had too many guys get impatient and use too much heat or get the flame from the torch on the shrink tubing or burn the insulation on the wiring. No, a hair blow dryer doesn't put out enough heat to shrink the tubing. Yes, my pump trucks all have a generator mounted on them for an electrical source.

Interestingly, this morning I was looking at 3M COLD shrink tubing. I have never used it before. You pull out a spirally wrapped form from the inside and it shrinks without heat. It is rated for submersible use. However it is very expensive. $15-20 per shrink tube.

You do need to make sure that you get all the stripped wire inside the connector and don't have any strands sticking out. It's not that big a deal on the #10 or #13 stranded wire on most domestic pumps. But the strands get to be quite a bit larger in the bigger wire sizes and a strand that is left sticking out can penetrate the shrink tubing.

 

[Boycedrilling]

When you pull the pump back out of the well, ohm the wires again. If it ohms ok dry, water is shorting it out. When you cut the splices back out, ohm the motor leads. Motor could be bad right out of the box.

 

[misterC]

Plugging the generator directly to the pump plug didn't work. Generator said it's pulling 34amps now, says overload, and pops the breaker. How many damn amps does this baby need to get up and running?! Lol damn.

I'm a fan of 240 for this very reason. But in my case, I had to go 115v pump because my generator doesn't handle 240v.

Thinking of getting a parallel kit for the generator and trying that.

 

[Boycedrilling]

I have never used a 115 volt motors. I've only used 230 volt motors in single phase, with control boxes. I can run a 1.5 hp 230 volt on a 3500 watt generator.

I rented a farmer a 100 hp 460 volt 3 phase Sub pump for the season, earlier this year. He was going to run it with a generator he bought. It was a 100 kw generator. Wouldn't run it. Brought out my 225 kw generator ran it fine, using about 5 gallons/hr diesel. They were hoping the well would produce 850 gpm. It ended up only producing 400-450 gpm. So they asked me to swap out the 100 hp for a smaller pump. Pulled the 100 hp pump and installed an old 60 hp I had. Ran fine on my 225 kw gen set. His 100 kw still wouldn't run it. Brought out my 80 kw gen set. Ran the pump fine, but wouldn't run the center pivot when the end gun booster pump kicked on. Did the calculations on drawdown and gpm. Determined we could get by with a 40 hp. Installed a new 40 hp sub pump. Ran fine on my generator. Would run the center pivot also. His gen set would run run the center pivot but not the pump. He finally got a generator service man out and found the problems with his generator. It's finally running the 40 hp pump and a 7 tower center pivot with an end gun booster pump.

 

[Craigpump]

Actually a 115volt pump pulls more amps than a 230.

Based solely on what you're saying, the pump is bad out of the box. But, I'd check the stamping on the motor just to be sure you have what you think you do.

 

[Boycedrilling]

A pump motor draws 5-6 times it running amps to start, for about a second. That's why a generator has to be oversized.

I have 20 hp test pump that I run on a 20 kw generator. I cannot start it without a variable speed drive. The vfd won't even start it unless I start it at 50 hz. Once I get it running and up to speed I can then bring it up to 60 hz. That generator will run it fine, it just can't START that load.

 

[Reach4]

I'm a fan of 240 for this very reason. But in my case, I had to go 115v pump because my generator doesn't handle 240v.

The Honda EU2000I generator is reported to handle such loads (1/2 HP 2-wire pump) better than most generators with similar ratings.

How many ohms do you measure for the pump? You are using 3 heat-shrink tubes -- one for each wire, right?

 

[Boycedrilling]

If I were you I'd go to Costco and get that 7000 watt generator, and a 230 volt submersible pump motor. You could run a 3 hp pump with it.

 

[misterC]

The Honda EU2000I generator is reported to handle such loads better than most generators with similar ratings.

How many ohms do you measure for the pump? You are using 3 heat-shrink tubes -- one for each wire, right?

I measure in between 1.8 - 2.0 ohms when it's down the well.

Yes, I used a shrink tube for each wire. 2 hots and the ground. Then to be sure i wrapped it with scotch pro rubber tape and finished layer of scotch 33.

Using a torch set on low was a breeze the second time for the shrink tubes. The manufacturer is crazy to recommend a bic lighter.

I think my 3500 watt inverter generator isnt enough amps to get through the startup phase when it's first turned on. It's trying to start though. So I'm hoping it's not a faulty pump.

 

[misterC]

Actually a 115volt pump pulls more amps than a 230.

Based solely on what you're saying, the pump is bad out of the box. But, I'd check the stamping on the motor just to be sure you have what you think you do.

Yeah like twice the amps if I remember. Is it common to get a faulty pump out the box? I have 1.8 - 2.0 ohms, it should be ok?

One thing I forgot to mention to everyone is the plug I wired is 15amp 120v. Could I need a bigger plug to get through the spike in amps at start up?

 

[Reach4]

I have 1.8 - 2.0 ohms, it should be ok?

One thing I forgot to mention to everyone is the plug I wired is 15amp 120v. Could I need a bigger plug to get through the spike in amps at start up?

The plug is not the problem.

I don't know what is. The Red Lion uses a Franklin motor. The Franklin AIM manual shows a 2 wire 1/2 HP 115 volt pump to have about 1.0 to 1.3 ohms. The rest would be wire. So the ohms don't look out of line. So I don't know if the problem is the pump or the generator.