Need help to evaluate sewer belly

[AmyLou]

New home on slab, moved in end 9/2021. Downstairs full bath and powder room, upstairs full bath. End 4/2022, downstairs toilet clogged. Husband plunged, then other downstairs toilet clogged, then sewage backed up into downstairs shower. For most of the 7 months before blockage, just one person living here. Emergency plumber snaked pipes, found and resolved blockage, and told us we have a sewer belly about 25 ft long. We shared his video with builder and plumbing installation co. They've been slow to act. They had us use sewer pipe liquid in all downstairs sink drains for six nights, then they jetted the lines and scoped. They said the belly is in a 4 inch pipe with 1 inch of water, but didn't indicate length or location. They said the standing water in sewer cleanout by driveway remarked on by emergency plumber is normal. They think blockage was due to construction debris and unlikely to happen again. Want to wait and scope in Dec, then reevaluate, altho they've said they'll pay for any repairs. We've asked for more details about the belly and its exact location and told them we know we'll need to disclose their construction defect should we ever sell and don't want to be on hook for cost of repairing their defect.

Is their slow "wait and see what happens" response normal? Does this sound like a serious or minor belly? What other questions or details should we be asking for? We've considered asking another company to scope again and give us as much detail as possible--would that be worth it? Other thoughts or advice? Thank you!

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Both companies should have recorded video and made their findings available to you. Did the first emergency plumber run a cable and camera or a jetter and camera?

Im wondering how the builders plumber determined "debris". They must have had a camera too.

Bellys can be remedied without tearing up the pipe. We've hired a company that inserts a massive vibrating cable into the pipe which they can direct the location and the vibration brings the bellied section Up where its supposed to be. But in some instances we've only been able to dig and replace larger more complicated sections that have multiple branches intersecting.

You could and probably should at this point hire someone specifically to camera/record the under slab drains.. if it ends up in court, this will be invaluable.

and slow? it shouldnt be normal. We had an issue with hot water delivery in a customers recent remodel and we and our general contractor had it remedied within a week.. tearing up 2 locations of carpet, cutting and patching floors and plumbing.

 

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[AmyLou]

Both companies should have recorded video and made their findings available to you. Did the first emergency plumber run a cable and camera or a jetter and camera?

Im wondering how the builders plumber determined "debris". They must have had a camera too.

Bellys can be remedied without tearing up the pipe. We've hired a company that inserts a massive vibrating cable into the pipe which they can direct the location and the vibration brings the bellied section Up where its supposed to be. But in some instances we've only been able to dig and replace larger more complicated sections that have multiple branches intersecting.

You could and probably should at this point hire someone specifically to camera/record the under slab drains.. if it ends up in court, this will be invaluable.

and slow? it shouldnt be normal. We had an issue with hot water delivery in a customers recent remodel and we and our general contractor had it remedied within a week.. tearing up 2 locations of carpet, cutting and patching floors and plumbing.

Yes, emergency plumber provided video with narration as he encountered and cleared the blockage and discovered the belly. Installation co. videoed one month before they jet washed and on the day of the jet wash. We asked for the videos and a report; they sent video for someone else's home recorded several months earlier and gave us the 4" pipe/1" inch water "report." They were unable to find either of the videos they took of our pipes. So we had them come scope again and this time the tech handed me a thumb drive of four videos with minimum narration. We're still waiting for their report with details of the belly--we've asked them to tell us how long, how much loss of grade, and the location.

We are thinking of having the emergency plumber co. come out to scope in detail and provide as much detail as possible, so we better understand what we're dealing with. Or would you recommend we choose a third company who is unfamiliar with our situation? Thank you!

 

[Jeff H Young]

first off why you wouldn't call the contractor? unless your ok paying the "emergency plumber"
If E.P. cleaned out and found a belly that would infer that no construction debris would be found by Plumbing Contractor.
Confusing about the videos .
How is the current pipe looking if its trapping water its not good whether a short section will function under normal use is only a guess.
It might be hard for you to understand plumbing or you may be uninterested but be there with the plumbing contractor tell them to provide full details . if they refuse you need to hire a guy . the builder and or plumbing contactor want to resolve it too, Though it sounds like they are hoping to run a snake a few times and hopefully forget about it . So if the plumbing contractor and builder know that you want all the video they may provide it because potentially they may get stuck with your costs

 

[AmyLou]

first off why you wouldnt call the contractor? unless your ok paying the "emergency plumber"
If E.P. cleaned out and found a belly that would infer that no construction debris would be found by Plumbing Contractor.
Confusing about the videos .
How is the current pipe looking if its trapping water its not good whether a short section will funtion under normal use is only a guess.
It might be hard for you to understand plumbing or you may be uniterested but be there with the plumbing contractor tell them to provide full details . if they refuse you need to hire a guy . the builder and or plumbing contactor want to resolve it too, Though it sounds like they are hoping to run a snake a few times and hopefully forget about it . So if the plumbing contractor and builder know that you want all the video they may provide it because potentialy they may get stuck with your costs

Sorry if my post is confusing. We didn't know who the original plumbing contractor was at the time we called the emergency plumber--found out after the fact from the builder who then asked the original contractor to come check it out. Original contractor never saw the blockage but we did give them the EP video showing the blockage and how it looked after he cleaned that out. Original contractor came the week after and took their own video (which they apparently lost). Then they asked us to pour the cleaning stuff down the drains for six nights, to prepare for jet wash. They they videoed again the day of jet wash (but apparently lost that video, too). At our request, they videoed a third time and we got that video. Based on that video, they pronounce the pipes clean, the belly minor, and conjecture there was probably construction debris that caught stuff and caused the blockage, since they don't see other blockages forming since they jet washed. But they offer to video again in Dec to see how things look then.

We're thinking of paying for another scope and video from a different company just to get details about the belly, since the original contractor is slow to provide any . It's been 4 months since their first video, 3 months since their jet wash, and all they've told us is it's a 4 inch pipe with 1 inch of standing water in it. They haven't said how long the belly is, how much loss of grade there is, or where it's located (under slab in the house? under slab in the garage?). We figure that's info we need to know whether to request repair now instead of waiting until there's another blockage.

 

[Breplum]

There should be absolutely no standing water whatsoever after washdown. There can always be accumulated debris in a pipe that hasn't been washed down.
If there is standing water after washdown, then you have a defective installation that MUST be addressed. Bellies will cause blockage no matter the size of the pipe.

 

[Jeff H Young]

lost video dont think so . document everything.
I think you need to know more about this, its your investment and home. Gotta get proactive . not nessesarily rude or pushy but they need to work with you or you might need to spend some cash to find out and tell them thier work and answers are unsatisfactory and you need proof that its right. ( I dont think it is ) then get a plan to make it right . do you even know where your sewer goes ? goes under driveway? just through the yard ? I dont know your exact rights but after a year most things are iffy at best.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

I haven't done much cabling / video of drains and such, but I always make a point of clearly describing in the video, the clients name address and date of inspection. Providing video of someone else perfectly clean or absolutely trashed sewer is a Too common practice by shady drain cleaners to avoid liability or scare people into unnecessary work. I'm not infering that your builder/plumber did that... but "Losing" both videos is not building their credibility.

Or would you recommend we choose a third company who is unfamiliar with our situation? Thank you!

A third party unaware and unbiased is what I would recommend.

There should be absolutely no standing water whatsoever after washdown.

Agreed!

 

[Jeff H Young]

undisputable about standing water and bellies in pipe is not normal . the issue is going to be whether under normal use this defect in workmanship will cause continual problems or not. my guess and its just a guess that there are many bellies that go un noticed and rarely if ever cause issue.
I dont imply plumbing contractor doing anythging wrong either but do imply they are quite sloppy with record keeping and not providing adequate info, of cource perhaps owner is laid back and un intersted?
Ball is in her court as to how to proceed. One thing I thought of is its possible the sewer was run to the house by a seperate contractor, Really need to get on the ball with adressing issues they could go out of buisness or say warranty is over.
I dont know if its possible that contractor set sewer solidly on the soil and that the area had been previously excavated and improperly compacted perhaps spreading the blame , so it can be a real can of worms fingers pointed in differant directions

 

[AmyLou]

undisputable about standing water and bellies in pipe is not normal . the issue is going to be whether under normal use this defect in workmanship will cause continual problems or not. my guess and its just a guess that there are many bellies that go un noticed and rarely if ever cause issue.
I dont imply plumbing contractor doing anythging wrong either but do imply they are quite sloppy with record keeping and not providing adequate info, of cource perhaps owner is laid back and un intersted?
Ball is in her court as to how to proceed. One thing I thought of is its possible the sewer was run to the house by a seperate contractor, Really need to get on the ball with adressing issues they could go out of buisness or say warranty is over.
I dont know if its possible that contractor set sewer solidly on the soil and that the area had been previously excavated and improperly compacted perhaps spreading the blame , so it can be a real can of worms fingers pointed in differant directions

Thank you everyone for the comments. We're going to get a third party to scope again and give us a detailed report, so we can be well informed as we deal with the builder and original contractor. Will update later with results/status. Thanks again for your help!

 

[Jeff H Young]

Yes Amy Lou , My whole point be informed. whatever it takes at this point I think info is lacking.
Please keep us informed i know you joined site simply to get free info but we arent getting paid anything other than a little satisfaction helping and hopefully insight on how your case pans out put your inspection on here ( if possible ) or you tube . I try to learn off every job , even though I and many others arent new to this game