Need help choosing proper sized adapter.

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I am in Jacksonville Fl. Job is being done under permit (application is in review)

I need to connect new 3" PVC DWV for Washing machine/Laundry tray into an existing C.I. pipe (I think) that goes into a grey water tank in my yard.
The existing pipe measures 15.25" circumference which comes out to a 4.85" diameter. The Fernco shielded fittings I am looking at are 4" or 6" and I am pretty sure neither will work. What am I missing here?

I am making this connection just a foot or two away from the tank itself so I suppose completely breaking the pipe out of the tank is also an option and using mortar to reconnect the new PVC? though I am not sure how the inspector will like that.
 

wwhitney

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If you're confident of your diameter measurement, and if this is going to be underground, looks like Fernco 1051-44 has one side 4.80" and the other side 4.40", so it should be possible to use to adapt your 4.85" OD pipe to 4" CI or Plastic (CI would be easier, plastic is 4.5" OD). There's also 1059-44, which is 5.01" on one side and 4.5" on the other.

If this isn't underground, then you are supposed to use the Fernco Proflex line, but they don't have anything suitable. The 1051-44 is available in a 1051-44RC version, which has a full metal shield. It's still not approved for above ground use, but it looks to be beefier than the Proflex line, so it may be a reasonable substitute. I didn't see a 1059-44RC.

You could also check with Mission Rubber.

Cheers, Wayne
 

John Gayewski

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If your od is 4.85" it's 4" pipe. Pipe is measured by inside diameter. If the coupling says it'll fit 4" cast iron it'll fit. But you'll want to get a coupling to fit from cast iron to PVC then you'll use a bushing to go from 4" PVC to 3".
 
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wwhitney

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Modern 4" no-hub cast iron is 4.4" OD, so a coupling made for it is not going to work for 4.85" OD. I thought the older cast iron pipes were available in different weights with different wall thicknesses, so the ODs vary?

Cheers< Wayne
 

John Gayewski

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Modern 4" no-hub cast iron is 4.4" OD, so a coupling made for it is not going to work for 4.85" OD. I thought the older cast iron pipes were available in different weights with different wall thicknesses, so the ODs vary?

Cheers< Wayne
I'm not actually sure and haven't researched the cast iron evolution. I do know the o.d. varies, but a fernco will fit regardless. Doughnuts are another story
 
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If you're confident of your diameter measurement, and if this is going to be underground, looks like Fernco 1051-44 has one side 4.80" and the other side 4.40", so it should be possible to use to adapt your 4.85" OD pipe to 4" CI or Plastic (CI would be easier, plastic is 4.5" OD). There's also 1059-44, which is 5.01" on one side and 4.5" on the other.

If this isn't underground, then you are supposed to use the Fernco Proflex line, but they don't have anything suitable. The 1051-44 is available in a 1051-44RC version, which has a full metal shield. It's still not approved for above ground use, but it looks to be beefier than the Proflex line, so it may be a reasonable substitute. I didn't see a 1059-44RC.

You could also check with Mission Rubber.

Cheers, Wayne
I used a seamstress tape to measure around the pipe. The connection is underground close to the tank.
Thank you for the part number (1051-44). I will order one and see how it goes I guess. I notice no one is suggesting I replace the entire pipe and redo the connection at the tank.

EDIT: I ordered the 1051-44RC as well. Hopefully one of them fits and pleases the inspector.
 
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wwhitney

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This is the same one wwhitney suggested. Are we sure it is rated for underground application?
Yes, the ~4" long unshielded rubber couplings are only usable underground. If you check it is listed to ASTM C1173 which is "Standard Specification for Flexible Transition Couplings for Underground Piping Systems" If you want a more rigid connection, get the one with the RC suffix, it includes a central shield and two more band clamps.

Cheers, Wayne
 

wwhitney

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This link is for ductile iron piping. Do you have ductile iron drain pipe? It's certainly possible. Not common but possible.
It's marketed for ductile iron piping because that is apparently the most common pipe with a 4.8" OD. But with a rubber coupling, all that matters is the pipe OD and that the pipe surface is sufficiently smooth. So if you have an oddball pipe size, you can just go by OD without regard to the pipe material.

Cheers, Wayne
 
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It's marketed for ductile iron piping because that is apparently the most common pipe with a 4.8" OD. But with a rubber coupling, all that matters is the pipe OD and that the pipe surface is sufficiently smooth. So if you have an oddball pipe size, you can just go by OD without regard to the pipe material.

Cheers, Wayne
That is what I was hoping...prior to posting here I was unable to find anything even close. As long as I can grind it clean and get the fitting on I don't care what type of pipe it is lol.
 

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It's marketed for ductile iron piping because that is apparently the most common pipe with a 4.8" OD. But with a rubber coupling, all that matters is the pipe OD and that the pipe surface is sufficiently smooth. So if you have an oddball pipe size, you can just go by OD without regard to the pipe material.

Cheers, Wayne
This coupling won't fit cast iron pipe. Which is my only point. Oddball sizes are based on the material they are made of. So if the pipe is in fact cast iron then the measurement is off or the measurement is accurate and the pipe is ductile.
 

wwhitney

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So if the pipe is in fact cast iron then the measurement is off or the measurement is accurate and the pipe is ductile.
Or the pipe is old "extra heavy" cast iron that is larger in diameter than modern no hub cast iron. Which is not something I've dealt with personally, but have read about.

Regardless, what matters is the OD. So if the OP is confident in the OD measurement/computation, they can get the correct part.

Cheers, Wayne
 

John Gayewski

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Or the pipe is old "extra heavy" cast iron that is larger in diameter than modern no hub cast iron. Which is not something I've dealt with personally, but have read about.

Regardless, what matters is the OD. So if the OP is confident in the OD measurement/computation, they can get the correct part.

Cheers, Wayne
True to a point. The I. D. would be a factor if draining into a pipe with a slightly smaller I. D. You'd be creating a snag point and violating code/good piping practice. Knowing the material will tell you the both I. D. And O. D. Which is actually not highly accurate when measured in the field. This is why we only mix sched 80 and 40 in that order from upstream to down.
 

wwhitney

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True to a point. The I. D. would be a factor if draining into a pipe with a slightly smaller I. D.
Good point, I've been assuming the ID would be very close to 4.0" in all cases.

On the Schedule 40 vs Schedule 80 example, 4" Schedule 40 has an ID of 4.03", and 4" Schedule 80 has an ID of 3.83", so I see that 0.2" of difference could be an issue. Does no one make an ID tapered Schedule 80/Schedule 40 coupling for this purpose?

Cheers, Wayne
 

John Gayewski

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Good point, I've been assuming the ID would be very close to 4.0" in all cases.

On the Schedule 40 vs Schedule 80 example, 4" Schedule 40 has an ID of 4.03", and 4" Schedule 80 has an ID of 3.83", so I see that 0.2" of difference could be an issue. Does no one make an ID tapered Schedule 80/Schedule 40 coupling for this purpose?

Cheers, Wayne
There you go. You could be a millionaire. Start making them.

I'm not aware of any adapter but you'd still be draining into a smaller ID.

We use sched 80 threaded nipples on urinals glue them to shed 40 fittings in which case we're draining into a larger ID.
 
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There you go. You could be a millionaire. Start making them.

I'm not aware of any adapter but you'd still be draining into a smaller ID.

We use sched 80 threaded nipples on urinals glue them to shed 40 fittings in which case we're draining into a larger ID.
I believe I am following all that you guys are saying, however I have no idea what kind of pipe it is. It was installed in 1956. It is approximately 6' long and currently has a 2" metal pipe (C.I or D.I. not sure) entering it at a very weird angle (coming from the house) and sealed with mortar. Not sure why it would be like that but maybe it was repaired or something many years ago.

I believe my measurement is accurate of the circumference. Assuming the diameter calculator online was correct I should be very close at 4.85". If that fitting is truly 4.8" I should be able to get it to fit.

As for the size drop of the I.D., if there is one, I will be adapting a 3" PVC pipe into a 4" 22.5 degree bend (to fix that weird angle) and then immediately into this Fernco adapter. So it will be increasing in size AND dropping over a slight "cliff" of the bend just before the Fernco...in other words I don't think the snag point will be an issue...PLUS this will be clean water only...no solids or paper.
 
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