Need float valve to turn off instantly not gradually

[Stapleerp]

I have a water tank that is currently being filled by a typical float valve with a ball on a stick. Due to another issue (that I won't get into) I need this to turn off instantly (or pretty close to instant) rather than gradually as the ball rises and gets closer and closer to closing it.

I would think something like a normally closed solenoid valve would work. With some sort of water level sensor that if it drops below that the valve would open and water would come in and then as soon as it hits the sensor it would stop.

I cannot seem to come up with a product that will do this. I see some float valves like you use in a sump pump hole but due to the nature of this tank I do not think something like that would work.

Does anyone have any experience with some simple all in one product that would do this? Valve/Sensor all together plug it in and go? Or are there other ways to get some sort of spring loaded mechanical float valve that will close quicker.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Fitter30]

Does the float now put fill in or out of the water? Potable water? Water level full and calling for water? Max size of float? How is your float valve mounted?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Stapleerp]

out of water. Yes potable. If it is full all the way that 4" ball on a 10" rod (like a old toilet float) pushes the 1" valve all the way shut. However when its at 80% full that 1" value is dumping out water then at 90% it might reduce the flow to about half as the ball has moved up some. At 95% it is just trickling out very slow as it fills that last little bit and completely shuts the valve.

The problem is upstream I need the back pressure to close a different valve. If I shut the water off all at once it has plenty of pressure to close that right up. But when it trickles it gets caught for a little bit where there is not enough pressure to close the upstream valve and it leaks until there is. Plus it would be nice to fill the tank up 100% quicker since the last 10% takes longer than it should.

 

[Stapleerp]

I see some nice plug in ball valves I could use that I assume activate to open when powered and closed when not (normally closed). I could use that possibly but would need some other sort of sensor that controls the plug. I see they make them for sump pumps but they turn on when the water level is high. I want something that turns on (to open valve) when the water level is low.

110v power is not an issue, right at the tank.

 

[Fitter30]

I see some nice plug in ball valves I could use that I assume activate to open when powered and closed when not (normally closed). I could use that possibly but would need some other sort of sensor that controls the plug. I see they make them for sump pumps but they turn on when the water level is high. I want something that turns on (to open valve) when the water level is low.

110v power is not an issue, right at the tank.

To reverse plug in valve is a relay. Can also do it with a n.o. valve. The one problem if power loss valve opens. Want a diagram and parts list?

 

[Reach4]

Here are some search terms to add to your searches:

non-modulating
hysteresis

 

[Chucky_ott]

Can't you use a normally closed float switch and a solenoid valve? The circuit would close when the water drops to a certain level.

 

[Stapleerp]

To reverse plug in valve is a relay. Can also do it with a n.o. valve. The one problem if power loss valve opens. Want a diagram and parts list?

So yes it has to close when power is off to it does not floor the basement this tank is sitting in if power was to fail.

I would be very grateful if you could point me in the right direction.

 

[Stapleerp]

Can't you use a normally closed float switch and a solenoid valve? The circuit would close when the water drops to a certain level.

so I am not able to find a float switch like that. They are all for sump pumps and activate when water is high. I want something to activate when water is low. I do not know about solenoid valves (especially how they are powered) that is why I liked this plug in ball valve. I assume it is normally closed but when it has power it opens.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082NRR85M/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A3U5BZIA9XHC1A&th=1

But the float valves I find that it could plug into all seem to work in reverse and power on at high water for pumps. I need it to open at low water so water flows in and refills this tank.

 

[Stapleerp]

Here are some search terms to add to your searches:

non-modulating
hysteresis

So a non-modulating float valve would be great, however all I see are ones that are like 6" wide and thousands of dollars for commercial applications. I need a in in house basement water tank solution.

 

[Chucky_ott]

Everbilt Wide-Angle Normally Closed Contact Float Switch EBNCFS - The Home Depot

Everbilt Normally Closed Float Switch is a replacement for aerator and stock tank pumps. Allows the pump plug to be plugged directly into this plug.

www.homedepot.com

 

[Chucky_ott]

And that powered valve you show IS a solenoid valve. They just did not call it that. Whether you need a normally closed or normally open valve would depend on your application

 

[Chucky_ott]

Also put in some tought on what would happen during a power outage and how your switch/valve will behave

 

[Stapleerp]

So I am worried the float valve won't work right in this tank. The ones with the long cords.

Anything like this that can directly control a solenoid valve?

https://www.amazon.com/Aopin-Stainless-Plastic-Controller-Aquarium/dp/B095HQDMLM/

Basically I can put a hole in the top of the tank and if there is a float on a stick that can go up and down and trigger valve open when it goes down and valve shut when it make contact with the top I it would be perfect.

This also might work

https://www.amazon.com/Roamoris-Automatic-Controller-Detector-NC01/dp/B0D9FHBJZH

But seems a little more complex than I need.

Thanks in advance

 

[Stapleerp]

Oh I might have found them. Can someone that knows what they are doing look at these

Whoops, we couldn't find that.

If I got something like this

Whoops, we couldn't find that.

Could I wire it up directly to something like this.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082NRR85M/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A3U5BZIA9XHC1A&th=1

With one of these for power?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0875WMYCX/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=AOTVD5RNGJU9R&psc=1

I don't understand all the amps/wire gage ect and what not I might need for this...

 

[Reach4]

You could try a toilet fill valve or two. Cheap.

A motorized ball valve sounds like it would be a slow close. Also, if the power goes off, I think you would want the valve to close.

You might want to read through https://terrylove.com/forums/index....-well-pump-and-water-hammer-questions.108341/

 

[Chucky_ott]

I am worried the float valve won't work right in this tank. The ones with the long cords.

Why do you think the normally-closed float switch (not valve) won't work? You simply plug the valve into the piggy-back plug on the switch.

 

[Valveman]

As was said a non-modulating float valve will work, Look at Jobe.

As was also said, a float switch with a electric solenoid "sprinkler" valve will work.

 

[Fitter30]

Valve u show is motorised and will not shut off right now. A solenoid valve will.
Shown is 1/2" they come in 3/4" also. Float has both n.o. and n.c. contacts

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K4BYFSW/ref=sspa_mw_detail_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9kZXRhaWwp13NParams

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00APDCWBW/ref=sspa_mw_detail_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9kZXRhaWwp13NParams

 

[Stapleerp]

Why do you think the normally-closed float switch (not valve) won't work? You simply plug the valve into the piggy-back plug on the switch.

The tank has a curved bottom so the weight would end up in the center. It is not very tall and I want this to trigger to let water in as soon as it starts to go down. The pump takes it down about 1.5 inches when it runs and it takes about 15 minutes of flow for that to refill. I'm worried one of these will not get enough angle to trigger until the tank is lower than it needs to be. With the refill rate being slow I want it to come on pretty quick. That is why I was hoping there was more of a sensor type unit that i could install on the top of the tank that can touch the water and turn it on and off.