Need advice on getting water pressure up hill.

[woodworker92]

New here, and need help. I have a well that is 400ft deep with a submerged pump pressure tank and switch. It feeds a house and a garage no problem. I'm needing it to feed another house that is 800 ft away and up a hill that I would guess to be 50 to 75ft in elevation. All of this is ran on 3/4 black polypipe. I hooked it all up with my fingers crossed just hoping it would work, I do not have much pressure. my initial thought was to put in a booster pump at the 2nd house, but am now worried that I will not have enough flow going to the booster pump. Any advice or input would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[Reach4]

Rising another 75 ft is 32.5 PSI of static pressure, plus there would be some drop due to the flow in the pipes -- about another 33 psi if you could do 5 gpm if that is another 800 ft of pipe. So you would want to know how much extra pipe that is. Less pipe means less drop for the dynamic drop.

Bigger pipe would have helped. You could have a storage tank open to the atmosphere up the hill. Then you would use a pressure pump to supply water around the high house. With the atmospheric storage tank, the well would not have to meet the peak loads of both houses.

If you try to turn up the pressure from the well to compensate, you have to be careful that the submersible pump could do the job, and the piping could take the added pressure.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[woodworker92]

How high could I turn the pressure up? I'm also thinking the water is flowing back down the hill. Would installing a check valve at the bottom of the hill help?

 

[Jadnashua]

There's almost certainly a check valve in the pump system already. BUt, adding that additional height will increase the pressure that keeps it closed when not pumping. You have two things against you:
- the pipe is really undersized for full flow to both houses with that distance and height change
- if the flow of the pump is not high enough, a booster pump probably wouldn't last long.

Your best bet is to increase the size of the pipe. But, to overcome potential well recovery, if that 3/4" pipe was all it could supply, you need a storage tank at the top of the hill, then run a pump to that second house from it. That will give you enough volume, and, could be a help should you need to fight a fire and might help with your homeowner's insurance.

Your pump is already pushing things pretty hard. nearly 500' means just to get any flow at all, it's 500*0.43=215 at the pump.

 

[woodworker92]

how big of a storage tank would I need?

 

[Reach4]

how big of a storage tank would I need?

The average person uses about 60 gallons per day without irrigation. So 200 gallons may be enough.

In some areas tanks are mandated to have enough storage for fire fighting, so that would outweigh what is needed for the house.

With an atmospheric storage tank, you need to prevent organism growth. That would normally mean chlorination. How automated that would be can vary. It could be a bottle of bleach, measuring spoons, and test paper.

It should be possible to have a closed storage system with pressure tanks. Then you would not need to chlorinate, but you would sanitize after doing plumbing and well work. You could even boost the water pressure at house 1. You would need to know that the main pump could supply enough water. There is more than one way to do this stuff. That would probably be 10 gpm from the pump or more for the two houses. You would also want better measurement of the altitude difference. An easy way to do that, if the pipes are run, is to measure the pressure at the top and bottom while no water is being used. If no flow, that will be a fixed difference.

http://www.pressure-drop.com/Online-Calculator/ will let you plug in numbers for the dynamic pressure loss. The dynamic plus the static gives the total drop.

I have no relevant experience. You would want some professional help if this is a long term thing.

 

[Jadnashua]

Some places want 3-4 or more thousand gallons if fire fighting is an issue. I think it would need to be sizeable if you wanted to get any insurance benefits, if there are any where you live. It would depend somewhat on how far you are from a water source, be it a hydrant, lake, pond, etc. If you have a fire, you really want a lot of water available.

Personally, I'd want at least a few days, and preferably a week's worth of water in the tank, and the ability to return it to the downhill house if the pump was dead and you couldn't get it fixed right away. A tank is a very common situation if you have a low performing well which, even if yours really isn't, you've created with the small supply pipe.

When the well was drilled, they usually do a maximum flow test. What was yours? There's a lot of friction in a 3/4" pipe over long distances.

 

[woodworker92]

I'm not sure what the max flow was, I do know I have a good well with plenty of water. I don't think I could pump it dry. I live in kentucky where we are known for our underground water. I think I will install a holding tank, I'm assuming the best way is to install the incoming water on a float valve?

 

[Valveman]

You don't need a storage tank or all the hassles that go with it, as long as your well can supply 10 GPM or so for two houses. You do need a well pump that can deliver the pressure needed. If you are losing 32 PSI (round to 40 PSI) in the elevation and distance, then you need to add that 40 PSI to the pressure switch setting. So instead of the normal 40/60 pressure switch setting, you would need 80/100. At that pressure and with two houses I would use a CSV1A set at 90 PSI with a 80/100 pressure switch on at least a 20 gallon size tank. Then all you need for the lower house is a regular pressure reducing valve to knock the pressure down from 90 to 50 as needed.

 

[WorthFlorida]

Do you know the dept of the submersible pump? Usually they’re not at the very bottom of the well.

 

[woodworker92]

I believe the last time I pulled it, it was around 350 ft.

 

[WorthFlorida]

I know well drilling can get expensive, is it possible to put in a new well where you need the water?

 

[Jadnashua]

If you are far from the nearest fire hydrant, a good sized local reservoir tank can make the difference between your house burning down, and saving it. 10-12gpm from your pump just won't cut it. A fire truck tanker may or may not be available.