My deep well pump is over 27 years old now, should I replace it?

[CountryBumkin]

I have a well that is around 300 ft. deep (I think). The submersible pump is over 27 years old now. It makes a loud clunk/bang when it starts. It has a 40 gallon pressure/bladder tank.

Should I replace the pump now - before it fails? What is the expected life of a well pump.

I am the original owner of this house. Four bedroom ranch in central FL. There are just two people in the house. I don't know what size/HP or GPM of the pump is. Is there any way to figure out the HP size without pulling the pump?

I would like to go with a "Cycle Stop Valve" setup.
If you don't recommend replacing the pump now (just wait for it to fail), can I just add the CSV now - or should I wait until a new pump is installed?

I think the CSV would help because I have front yard and shrub sprinklers (five zones) that makes the pump cycle on once about every 5 or 10 minutes and the sprinklers run for about 2.5 hours every three days. I haven't had the sprinklers for all 27 years - I just installed them a few years ago. But that's a lot of pump cycling I think. I suppose could add more sprinkler heads to keep pump running longer - but wouldn't a CSV be a better solution?

Thanks

 

[Reach4]

If you have an above ground check valve, removing or gutting that may cure the bang.

On the other hand, if your check valve at the pump has failed, a topside check valve can work around the problem despite the bang.

How to figure out the pump size... What is the casing size? Does this pump have a controller? Do you know how far down the water surface is?

Besides power, you would want the GPM info. This can be estimated various ways including timing how long it takes to fill the pressure tank, and measuring how much water that corresponds to.

The main power clue, unless the control box has a HP rating, is what current is being drawn when the pump runs.

Another way to reduce cycling is to increase the flow rate to the zones so that the pressure stays below the cut-off pressure while watering.

 

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[Valveman]

Like Reach said the "clunk/bang" you are hearing is from the water hitting the above ground check valve. The check valves are worn from the pump cycling for the last few years. Usually when you remove the above ground check valve you can put the new CSV1A in its place. The CSV will make the "clunk" and the cycling go away.

If the below ground check valve doesn't hold, the pump will come back on even when not using any water, and the check valve on the pump will have to be replaced. But usually the lower check will start working again when it has all the pressure holding it closed instead of splitting the pressure with another check valve.

The CSV will stop any further abuse on the pump from cycling, but there is nothing it can do about the damage from all the years previous. Your pump maybe on its last leg or it could have another 20 years left in it. A submersible will just keep running strong until the day it dies. Unless it is a real pain to get to in the winter or something, I wouldn't fix it until it is broken.

 

[CountryBumkin]

Thanks for your help.

So I can install the CSV1A in place of the above ground check valve and I should not need to make any other changes. Great! Can I just continue using the big 40 gallon pressure/bladder tank (and just replace with a smaller unit when/if it goes bad)?

If, after installing the CSV1A, the pump then starts to come on when I'm not using water (it doesn't do this now) that means the check valve at the pump is bad. If this happens, I assume I can just remove the CSV and go back to old setup until I can schedule a pump replacement.

Where would I typically find the "above ground" check valve?

I have not noticed anything that looks like a check valve between the top of the casing and the pressure tank.

Lastly, in your other thread about "Who makes the best submersible pump" there was talk about some pump manufacturers saying not to use a CVS with there pump because the pump would overheat (at low flow).

Should I make sure (if I can) that I don't have one of these Franklin pumps? Is that a concern? Such as discussed, starting about here Who Makes the Best Submersible Pump?

EDIT: Valveman, just found/looked at your website - you have a lot of great info there! Very nice.

 

[Reach4]

Where would I typically find the "above ground" check valve?

Near the pressure tank probably.

 

[Valveman]

If you cannot find a check valve above ground, you probably have an extra one in the drop pipe down the well. You should also check the air pressure in the tank. If the tank has too much air, it can cause a thump at pump start as well. But if the tank has too much air pressure and you didn't add any recently, the tank is probably bad, as that is what happens when the bladder has had too many cycles.

Even Franklin pumps work fine with Cycle Stop Valves. They just don't want you to think they do so you will buy one of their expensive variable speed things.

 

[CountryBumkin]

I don't know if there are multiple check valves or not - your reasoning is good however.

I have replaced the pressure tank at least four times so far. The current tank is about four years old now. At least once a year I shut off the pump, relive all the water pressure and check the air in the tank. I pressurize it to 40 psi. for a 40/60 pressure switch.

This weekend I'm going to start collecting info on the pump (whatever I can see above ground) and I'll check the GPM of the pump. The original well installer is still in business, but did not respond to my phone calls (last year) when I called asking for info on what was installed. I guess I should try calling them again.

Can I do a GPM test at the "outside garage faucet" with a five gallon bucket? How would I know if the piping (1/2" PB) to the faucet is too small and restricting flow - won't that throw off the GPM test?

 

[PumpMd]

Test how much drawdown(gallons) your getting out of your pressure tank before the pump kicks on or turn the power off to the pump. You usually set your precharge 2psi lower than your kick on pressure. Because, if you have to much air it will make your pressure switch kick on/off multiple times (very bad on everything) before the pump stays on.

Now that you know your drawdown (gallons), you can now test your runtime on how long it takes to fill your pressure tank and kicks the pump off. This will help determine your GPM pump end and to see if your pressure tank was sized properly to your GPM pump end.

 

[Reach4]

Can I do a GPM test at the "outside garage faucet" with a five gallon bucket? How would I know if the piping (1/2" PB) to the faucet is too small and restricting flow - won't that throw off the GPM test?

In this procedure, it is not important to time the time it takes to draw the water from the pressure tank. Instead you are just measuring those gallons. http://www.cleanwaterstore.com/reso...ump-flow-rate-on-systems-with-pressure-tanks/

You do time how long it takes to go from empty to click off. The method is not perfect in that the flow into the tank is higher GPM when the pressure is lower and the flow slows as the cut-off is approaching. But it should give a helpful number.

If your water pressure stutters when the pump clicks on, you could lower the air precharge a tad. If no stutter, then your precharge is not too high.