Cacher_Chick
Test, Don't Guess!
It is always better to do it right, rather than to do it over.
Moving Drain (& supply lines in the way) for shower
- Thread starter Hiperco
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A perfect example of something done totally wrong.
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hj
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Traps without vents work MUCH BETTER than traps with vents, usually, but that is why they need vents. Otherwise they work so well that they drain ALL the water out of the trap also. You do not have a "close to S trap", you have a FULL S trap. That elbow going into the wall below makes it an S trap. Since there is a partion/wall supporting the joist, you can drill the hole anywhere under the shower that it has to go.
hj
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quote; how about an Air Admittance Valve (AAV) inside that wall, with an access panel?
How about just running a pipe up into the attic, and from there, either connecting to the main vent, which should be fairly close, or running the pipe through the roof, and doing it "right"?
How about just running a pipe up into the attic, and from there, either connecting to the main vent, which should be fairly close, or running the pipe through the roof, and doing it "right"?
Hiperco
Member
The "back" wall of the shower is where the roof meets the wall, and the pitch of the roof is shallow enough that you can't get all the way over there. The further away from that wall I go the better of course, I'll have to investigate. Is there a major concern with AAV's, such that they really aren't recommended?
I'm puzzled on what an acceptable way would be to route the vent line, assuming I need to run the vent line horizontal (or nearly so) until it could turn and go up the wall. I guess this would be a flat vent, with a wye rotated above the center line of the drain?
I'm puzzled on what an acceptable way would be to route the vent line, assuming I need to run the vent line horizontal (or nearly so) until it could turn and go up the wall. I guess this would be a flat vent, with a wye rotated above the center line of the drain?
Jadnashua
Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
The vent line still needs a minimum slope, and there is a limit on how long it can be based on the pipe size, but yes, you can run it horizontally to get it out of the bottom of the shower - it's done all of the time - the most common place for a drain in a shower is exactly in the middle. If that partition wall goes to the ceiling, you could go up it into the attic.
An AAV will eventually fail since it is a mechanical device. Gravity and a traditional vent should last forever without issues.
An AAV will eventually fail since it is a mechanical device. Gravity and a traditional vent should last forever without issues.
Hiperco
Member
Do P-traps have to exit straight? Or can I do as shown in the attached pictures? (This would make my life a lot easier, as I wouldn't have to move either supply line.)
Hiperco
Member
Man this is a tough crowd! I'm not sure how you concluded that, since I AM planning to correct the vent issue.
Below is a concept showing how I might be able to run the fittings to allow a 1 1/2 inch flat vent to run under the floor and then up the wall (the vent line will turn to the left, I just don't have that elbow yet, still strategizing )But back to my original question, can I turn the exit to the trap like that?
Sorry, I'm just trying to help.
MTcummins
In the Trades
Your rough layout looks about right, thought its hard to tell exactly what the plan is. P traps turn like that all the time, as far as I know there's no code issue with it.
Why was/are you plumbing a shower in 3"? You'd probably have a little easier time with clearances with the normal 2" drain and 1.5" vent.
This is an easy vent job, as they go... take it up into the attic and tie it in to the main stack. AAVs can be useful when it is extremely difficult or impossible to run a hard vent, but should be avoided most of the time.
Why was/are you plumbing a shower in 3"? You'd probably have a little easier time with clearances with the normal 2" drain and 1.5" vent.
This is an easy vent job, as they go... take it up into the attic and tie it in to the main stack. AAVs can be useful when it is extremely difficult or impossible to run a hard vent, but should be avoided most of the time.
MTcummins
In the Trades
Ah, in looking more closely at it... so it isn't. I've been working in these old Pittsburgh houses too long (the framing is all like 2.5" wide, not 1.5"), so the proportions looked off at first glance, making the pipe look quite large compared to the joists. My mistake.
Hiperco
Member
And I DO appreciate the help
Regarding the vent line, I'm thinking it will turn to the left off the Y and cross over then turn up in the wall. I will rotate the Y so that it's above the center line.
MTcummins
In the Trades
yes, just rotate the street 45 you have in there so that it points toward the side wall and take it up the wall into the attic. use an upside down 3/1.5 (or 4/1.5 if you have a 4" stack) tee to tie the vent into the main stack in the attic, no hole in roof required. you don't have to pitch it up much, 1/4" per foot is the standard. just enough that water will take the easy route that is pitched downhill rather than climbing up the vent.
Hiperco
Member
So I climbed into the attic today. As feared, the vent stack is nearly at the roof line. Tying into it would be very very unpleasant, if not impossible. I've attached a picture, but it doesn't really do justice to the (lack of) clearance situation.
Will I be branded "uncool" (or lazy?) if I just use an AAV? FYI, behind that left wall is a closet so it really isn't an issue having an access panel for the AAV there...
Will I be branded "uncool" (or lazy?) if I just use an AAV? FYI, behind that left wall is a closet so it really isn't an issue having an access panel for the AAV there...
MTcummins
In the Trades
Where is the shower, specifically the wall we suggested venting through, in relation to the stack? I see a vent line tying into the stack back there, that while not overly pleasant to do, wouldn't be that hard to tie into, as it looks like you might not have room to Tee off of the main stack itself.
Personally, I take whatever possible measures to hard vent every line, and if its not possible, find another possible way. If that fails, and its a lav or kitchen sink, I'll consider installing AAV's in the cabinet under the sink where they breathe well and are easy to access. To date, I've never put an AAV on a shower, it just seems like a bad idea. From everything you've shown us, this does not look like an overly difficult job to properly vent, though granted crawling through all that loose fill insul isn't gonna be the most pleasant of jobs.
Personally, I take whatever possible measures to hard vent every line, and if its not possible, find another possible way. If that fails, and its a lav or kitchen sink, I'll consider installing AAV's in the cabinet under the sink where they breathe well and are easy to access. To date, I've never put an AAV on a shower, it just seems like a bad idea. From everything you've shown us, this does not look like an overly difficult job to properly vent, though granted crawling through all that loose fill insul isn't gonna be the most pleasant of jobs.
It's easy enough to just pop a new vent through the roof, especially if it's comp.
You can also daylight an AAV in the attic.
For a shower vent, you can cut into the 1.5" or 2" vent laying horizontal.
You can also daylight an AAV in the attic.
For a shower vent, you can cut into the 1.5" or 2" vent laying horizontal.
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