Most insane shower ever?

[MACABUS]

Never sweated a pipe or laid tile before – so I decided to demo my master bath and build a 4' x 9' spa shower.

Here's a photo of the plumbing layout for 6 Kohler Water Tiles – with triple pressure loops. And a photo of my progress so far.

Also built a linear slot drain tapping into the existing waste pipes – with a 5" raised shower floor angling back 1" over 4' to the slot drain. There will be a 5/16" gap between the travertine floor and the shower wall – extending the entire length of the 9' shower area.

Happy to report that everything works beautifully!

I'm interested to hear what the professionals think about my creation.

 

[hj]

Well, the shower balancing loops do absolutely nothing to improve flow or pressure, and I am not sure what that "big" loop around is doing, but it is also unnecessary. But all in all, it is "impressive", overly expensive, and time consuming to install. Does it come with an instruction booklet or video DVD to show how to take a shower?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[MACABUS]

This is my "retirement" house, so I wanted an extra special master bathroom – hence the spa shower experience.

I emailed my original plumbing design without pressure loops to Kohler for input, and their lead engineer responded that I absolutely needed to have individual pressure loops – especially for vertical pairs. He said they get tons of complaints from homeowners about unequal pressure with body sprays, and they always blame the installation design.

Gotta say, the pressure for all fixtures is absolutely rock solid – completely equal all the way around.

You're right, instructions for taking a shower would be helpful

 

[Terry]

It does look nice. What are you doing to heat the water?
I have a digital setup from Moen in a box, but was needing more output than my tankless can deliver in the Seattle area with 50 degree incoming water.

 

[MACABUS]

It does look nice. What are you doing to heat the water?
I have a digital setup from Moen in a box, but was needing more output than my tankless can deliver in the Seattle area with 50 degree incoming water.

Thanks Terry,

I'm really limited on options for heating the water – we're in an all-electric community and bringing gas into the property isn't cost efficient.

Plus, the house design is not conducive to putting additional power lines in the laundry room for a tankless heater.

So, I upgraded to a 80 gallon tank – which give us about 20 minutes of shower time with all fixtures running full blast.

Also installed a Panasonic WhisperLine 240 in-line vent fan – which eliminates any excess steam.

 

[rjbphd]

Well, the shower balancing loops do absolutely nothing to improve flow or pressure, and I am not sure what that "big" loop around is doing, but it is also unnecessary. But all in all, it is "impressive", overly expensive, and time consuming to install. Does it come with an instruction booklet or video DVD to show how to take a shower?

For saying that,you're not a plumber

 

[hj]

You say that to me after I have been doing this for over 65 years, the first 20 in Chicago? The laws of physics proves I am correct.

 

[JohnjH2o1]

Sounds like Kohler is giving you over kill advice to protect their products

 

[Jadnashua]

A balancing loop may help if the supply pipe is too small. As long as it is large enough, all outlets should get the same volume of water and pressure. IOW, if the pipe can supply more water than the shower outlets will let through, the volume and therefore pressure will be essentially equal at all of them less any caused by elevation change (0.43#/foot of change - likely totally in the noise).

 

[rjbphd]

A balancing loop may help if the supply pipe is too small. As long as it is large enough, all outlets should get the same volume of water and pressure. IOW, if the pipe can supply more water than the shower outlets will let through, the volume and therefore pressure will be essentially equal at all of them less any caused by elevation change (0.43#/foot of change - likely totally in the noise).

What noise? I'm deaf while taking shower..

 

[Jadnashua]

What noise? I'm deaf while taking shower..

The pipes may end up running a long distance through the house...depending on the size of the pipes and where they are routed, while you may not hear anything, others might if the water velocity is higher than design parameters suggest.

 

[MACABUS]

Sounds like Kohler is giving you over kill advice to protect their products

To all those who said that pressure loops don't make difference – here's a photo of Kohler Water Tiles with unequal pressure.

The bottom fixture appears to have a much straighter stream – perhaps this is closer to where the source pipe first connects before continuing to the next fixture.

 

[Jadnashua]

If the supply pipe is properly sized, a pressure balancing loop won't make any difference. Think of the supply pipe on the street...all of the houses along the way get the same pressure because the supply pipe is of adequate size...on a much smaller scale, the same thing happens in a shower.

 

[MACABUS]

If the supply pipe is properly sized, a pressure balancing loop won't make any difference. Think of the supply pipe on the street...all of the houses along the way get the same pressure because the supply pipe is of adequate size...on a much smaller scale, the same thing happens in a shower.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with your argument – even though you were once an engineer.

A typical water main in a residential street is 8" – which can supply almost 1,000 GMP.

Most high-end 3/4" thermostatic controls limit the shower hot/cold output to around 19 GMP. And that volume has to supply multiple shower fixtures at 1/2". At this relatively low pressure, it's first come – first served.

 

[Terry]

I think you did right by doing the loop.
It's best to follow the instructions that come with the faucets.

 

[MNshowerdude2]

holy copper batman

 

[Jadnashua]

As long as the supply volume is larger than the outlets demand, you do not need a balancing loop. This is why the street side supply line is so large - it can support the volume of multiple outlets without pressure/volume issues. The same is true within your own home. It's when the supply cannot support the full flow of all of the outlets that it helps to balance things. Then, the pressure (and thus volume) will decrease the further you are from the source. To make things work properly, you'd likely need to maintain that 3/4" line, and then T off with 1/2" outlets to the heads...using a 1/2" supply line to the heads would not be sufficient for more than 2 heads while maintaining adequate volume (assuming code compliant heads). A 3/4" line should be able to supply up to 4 heads at max outlet, and more if they are less than the 2.5gpm assuming you have a valve designed to supply it. Any higher volume, and you're pushing up against the copper tubing institute's maximum velocity for a supply line, and thus, increased friction and thus potential drop in pressure.