Moentrol Valve - weird issues

[MikeKenmore]

I recently removed tile and installed new backerboard and tiles in a shower/tub unit. the plumbing pipes were not connected to anything and they moved in and out relative to the tile wall. the old valve is an old school Moentrol. I didn't add blocking to the valve since I didn't know the correct depth and figured that if it worked in the past like it had been, I should be good to go in the future. this is in an old condo building that we rent out.

Now, after installing new trim set, I found that I could not install the screw all the way into the threaded hole of the valve; when I did this, it would turn on the water (presumably because the whole system wasn't secured in the wall). so, I set the screw loose so that I could pull the water on and depress it so that it shuts off completely. it seemed to work at first, but when I went back today (I'm selling the unit, hence the remodel), I found that in filling up the tub, there would be a little trickle of water from the shower head if I pulled the handle all the way out. the trickle would take 5 or so seconds to form, but then would be continuous.

The way to remedy the trickle was to push the screw in a little bit so the water wasn't full pressure, but that's obviously not a long-term solution, especially if/when the inspector comes to look at this.

What am I missing? what am I doing wrong? and how can I fix? I can make access to the wall if needed, but it's really a last resort since I would have to cut in from the hallway.

One thought I had, which is totally not a good idea, was to apply some goop (glue) to the screw and handle so that the screw was no longer loose within the handle. I think there's about 1/4" gap on the screw head to the handle when turned off, so I can't really turn off the water without pushing on the screw itself.

 

[MikeKenmore]

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Terry]

They make a handle extension for the Moen.

https://www.moen.com/products/Moen/Moen_Handle_extension_kit/137347WR

That valve that you have has a diverter built in for the shower head, and I see that you added a tub spout with diverter. The tub spout gets run in copper or full sized pipe or it will push water up to the shower head.
Anything smaller like PEX or CPVC will push the water upward.

 

[MikeKenmore]

thanks for the info Terry.

how does the extension piece solve the issue of not being able to fully shut off the water? seems like by sticking out more, it would just cause the screw to pull more on the valve???

yes, I replumbed the spout portion of the line with a Sharkbite elbow. methinks this is the restriction, unfortunately. I see Moen has a shower pressure control valve, but that seems really hokey to me.

 

[Terry]

The instructions mention not reducing the pipe size to the tub spout.

It has been plumbing code for decades now with the requirement to either pressure balance or thermostatically control temperature. It's really a great idea. I had three valves like the one you had at my mothers and I replaced all of them with the Moen pressure balanced faucets.

Is this the valve you have?

If the old trim looked like the one below, I often need the extension kit for it to work with the more recent trim that isn't concave. Otherwise the handle hits the plate before it shuts off.

 

[MikeKenmore]

yes, that's the valve i have.

question: do you have availability in the next week to do a service call? project is in lower queen anne.

i don't think i reduced the pipe size necessarily, but perhaps the sharkbite reduces flow just enough to make the difference. i tried today without the diverter on and it still dribbled water out the shower head. here's what i used: https://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBi...gree-Stub-Out-Elbow-Fitting-U351LFA/202721918

 

[Helper Dave]

Did you leave the little plastic sleeve in the sharkbite? Those for certain restrict flow too much for the tub spout.

They're supposed to be removed for copper pipe, and I've seen other shower valve set-ups using sharkbites successfully, so I presume it's just the sleeve that causes the problem.

Other plumbers chime in if you've seen them cause problems more consistently.

 

[MikeKenmore]

No, I didn't take out the plastic sleeves. dang!

 

[MikeKenmore]

helper Dave: thanks for the idea on the SharkBite plastic. i cut a hole in the backside of the wall and removed it. no more drips

Terry: thanks for the product recommendation. I ended up not using the sleeve, but did use the brass extension. I was nervous, b/c the long screw bolt they provided was just long enough, but it seems to work fine now.

project complete. time to sell!

 

[hj]

The handle was too close to the plate. When you tightened the screw, it pulled the stem out turning the water on.

 

[Buckwheat9]

Hi Terry - Any Help would be appreciated.

I have uploaded our valve that looks the same as above (Balancing Spool on top centered between the two "stops"). It was installed mid-1970s.

At the very least, the cartridge is frozen. I want to replace that and anything else that might be wise to swap out.

**** Is there any way to identify this valve so that I can find new parts??? ******

Thank you for your forum. Very helpful

Buck!

 

[Terry]

That Moentrol takes either a 1200 or a 1225 cartridge. This is why the handle is hard to pull out. Replace that and it's like a new faucet. Is new really.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/moen-shower-cartridge-removal-tool.1437/

The diverter is a replaceable part too. And the balancing spool is too.

 

[Buckwheat9]

So "either a 1200 or a 1225 cartridge" means they both could work and I take my pick; or I won't know until the old one is out whether it's the 1200 or 1225? I think you mean that they both would work.

They both work, Terry

I REALLY appreciate. I'm going to try to do this myself for my elderly parents. I think a new diverter is in order also and I may take your suggestion about the balancing spool.

Thank you for the link to the removal tool.

I don't know who you are but I appreciate!! We need more of you.