Radiant heating newbie
Member
I needed everyone'e opinions for new replacement bathroom faucets and shower heads. I do care about durability and reliability and that is the number one requirement. thanks.
Moen vs Delta vs Kohler vs Grohe vs American Standard
- Thread starter Radiant heating newbie
- Start date
Master Plumber Mark
Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls
Delta makes much better tub and shower facuets that are easy to repair.... The Delta 1700 series
are the best tub and shower faucet on the market....
all the rest of Deltas lines are basically junk--- their kitchen and lav faucets are mostly plastic with
extra long plastic supply lines that you are not supposed to cut....
Moen sink faucets at any hardware store are probably the best for the money and I keep them on my
truck....,... The Moen tub faucets are ok but not as good as the Delta line..
Basically, Delta has gone to hell over the years by kissing up to California and their lead free codes... which have
made mostly all of their faucets extra cheap and shitty..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kohler is junk across the board......
American standard is a total joke too...
Ghohe is a high end faucet that has been basically ran out of our town and
very few people carry that line any longer and are impossible to repair down the road...
It all depends on how much money you allow your wife to piss away on fancey high end stuff that
looks pretty today but will eventually fail you.....
are the best tub and shower faucet on the market....
all the rest of Deltas lines are basically junk--- their kitchen and lav faucets are mostly plastic with
extra long plastic supply lines that you are not supposed to cut....
Moen sink faucets at any hardware store are probably the best for the money and I keep them on my
truck....,... The Moen tub faucets are ok but not as good as the Delta line..
Basically, Delta has gone to hell over the years by kissing up to California and their lead free codes... which have
made mostly all of their faucets extra cheap and shitty..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kohler is junk across the board......
American standard is a total joke too...
Ghohe is a high end faucet that has been basically ran out of our town and
very few people carry that line any longer and are impossible to repair down the road...
It all depends on how much money you allow your wife to piss away on fancey high end stuff that
looks pretty today but will eventually fail you.....
Sponsor
Paid Advertisement
Mark your 1 million percent correct
I noticed the "Bold look," But never saw the word quality with a bold look product
One of my scalding cases, a Moen was involved as the water was mixing through the shower body decades ago ago
I noticed the "Bold look," But never saw the word quality with a bold look product
One of my scalding cases, a Moen was involved as the water was mixing through the shower body decades ago ago
Mark your 1 million percent correct
I noticed the "Bold look," But never saw the word quality with a bold look product.
One of my scalding cases, a Moen was involved as the water was mixing through the shower body decades ago
I noticed the "Bold look," But never saw the word quality with a bold look product.
One of my scalding cases, a Moen was involved as the water was mixing through the shower body decades ago
GReynolds929
Well-Known Member
High end delta is Brizo, which is pretty good, or if money is no object there's Kingston Brass, house of Rohl, etc. I've been happy with Moen and delta for general purposes.
JohnCT
Still learning..slowly
What are your thoughts about Symmons? I'm going to remodel two baths that have Symmons valves and in 35 years, they've been pretty reliable. Even though the bodies are probably still good I'm going to replace the shower valves with all new as long as I have to open walls. If money is no object, which would you use?
John
JohnCT
Still learning..slowly
.
Jeff H Young
In the Trades
Ive never used symmons ive seen them seldom very seldom. supply houses locally might have them i think its mainly commercial or hotel , apt type stuff but at one time was big single family home but not so much here in so cal. pricepfister was king from ww2 days all through the 60s and much of 70s then things started getting divided with moen and delta.
So I have zero experiance with the brand. but I think they are known for quality function
Delta and Moen are good for the money and Id expect 50 years out of them but I usually replace if walls are open over 20 year old on a remodel
So I have zero experiance with the brand. but I think they are known for quality function
Delta and Moen are good for the money and Id expect 50 years out of them but I usually replace if walls are open over 20 year old on a remodel
I installed and serviced a lot of Simmons valves.
Good quality, but the parts may be hard to acquire.
When I have a choice, I would rather use Delta as they are easy to repair and adjust, and parts are FREE and very easy to acquire
I did have 2 cases where scalding was related to Symmons shower valves and dripping calls about 20+ years ago
Jeff H Young
In the Trades
I stayed at a large hotel in las vegas a few weeks ago first night I noticed shower cartridge was reversed and that water was really hot the next day the shower had hot only no cold Engineering was called it was a Rohl according to tech he swapped cartridge
JohnCT
Still learning..slowly
HD carries parts for them -
- but about 10 years ago I had a persistent drip on both my 25 year old valves that new washers didn't fix, so I called Symmons, and they sent me hot and cold seats, new spindles with gaskets, and a tool to remove the seats. All free. Probably $150 retail worth of stuff.
I'll check the Delta's out before I make a decision. Thanks.
John
Master Plumber Mark
Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls
Symmons valves suck and I wont work on them, I even bought the expensive tool kit that is supposed to make the job
of extracting sseats easy but it never worked .... You can get yourself into a lot of trouble if you mess with an old symmons valve
with no one in 100 miles that have parts for you....
Steer clear of them
JohnCT
Still learning..slowly
Thanks Mark, but I already have two of them, and they're approaching 35 years old so I can't avoid them right now - and they've been very reliable. I realize that my two examples are simply anecdotal and if only 2 out of 10 of these valves are any good, it's entirely possible I got the two good ones out of ten, which is why I asked this group of learned folks.
BUT, let me say this - regarding the seat tool Symmons provides, you're right about the seat tool being difficult and mostly ineffective on the cold seat. The hot seat uses a large square drive tool that goes through the seat and you can put a ton of force on it to back it out, but the cold seat tool only grips the outer lip of the cold seat, and it galls out the brass lip when you try to spin it out. That happened to me. I contacted Symmons after they sent me the seats and tools for free because I couldn't get the cold water seat out with the supplied tool, and they said if the tool didn't work, use a #8 EZ Out. They sent me a .pdf with a very detailed description on how to replace the seats. I suspect a lot of people had the same problem with seats that were in the valve for 25 years. I picked up a #8 EZ Out as they suggested, tapped it into the seat with a hammer, and backed the cold seat out with a ratchet. Came right out with no slippage. The only trouble I had with the EZ Out was getting the cold seat off the EZ Out tool because I might have tapped it too hard into the seat..
I cut into the seat with a Dremel and split the seat off the EZ Out with a screwdriver. As far as parts, Symmons provides all repair parts for free, but if you don't want to wait, Home Depot carries everything for the Symmons Temptrols right on the shelf including the spindles.
John
In the 1980s, I testified against Symmons regarding scalding cases. Both cases were nursing homes.Thanks Mark, but I already have two of them, and they're approaching 35 years old so I can't avoid them right now - and they've been very reliable. I realize that my two examples are simply anecdotal and if only 2 out of 10 of these valves are any good, it's entirely possible I got the two good ones out of ten, which is why I asked this group of learned folks.
BUT, let me say this - regarding the seat tool Symmons provides, you're right about the seat tool being difficult and mostly ineffective on the cold seat. The hot seat uses a large square drive tool that goes through the seat and you can put a ton of force on it to back it out, but the cold seat tool only grips the outer lip of the cold seat, and it galls out the brass lip when you try to spin it out. That happened to me. I contacted Symmons after they sent me the seats and tools for free because I couldn't get the cold water seat out with the supplied tool, and they said if the tool didn't work, use a #8 EZ Out. They sent me a .pdf with a very detailed description on how to replace the seats. I suspect a lot of people had the same problem with seats that were in the valve for 25 years. I picked up a #8 EZ Out as they suggested, tapped it into the seat with a hammer, and backed the cold seat out with a ratchet. Came right out with no slippage. The only trouble I had with the EZ Out was getting the cold seat off the EZ Out tool because I might have tapped it too hard into the seat..
As far as parts, Symmons provides all repair parts for free, but if you don't want to wait, Home Depot carries everything for the Symmons Temptrols right on the shelf including the spindles.
John
Google Symmons shower valves scalding cases
JohnCT
Still learning..slowly
Once there is a problem, I feel it loses credibility. One lawsuit can cost millions. The liability, in my opinion, is not worth it.
Notable Historical Incidents
- Scalding Hazard Warnings: In the 1980s, the CPSC and Symmons issued a safety warning regarding pressure-balancing shower systems (such as Temptrol and Safetymix). The hazard occurred when installers failed to correctly set the temperature-limiting device (the limit stop screw), resulting in scalding water temperatures in the plumbing system.
- Regulatory Settlement: In November 2021, Symmons settled with the California Energy Commission for
. The company was penalized for manufacturing and selling lavatory faucets, kitchen fa - ucets, and showerheads that did not meet state efficiency standards and lacked proper certification markings.
Similar threads
