Moen or Delta?

[Pitterpat]

Trying to figure out which one is brand, Moen or Delta is best and most economical ( not cheap, I just don't want to spend an arm and a leg for it) for my application for a shower. Here's what the spec's are:

1. Shower 36 x 66; shower head at front wall, 36" bench on back wall. You enter on one of the long walls. Shower controls (see # 6 & 7 below) on walls perpendicular to shower head. Think of this as a rectangle with the shower head on the short end, the shower seat opposite the showerhead wall and the controls on each long side. The control valve is on the wall you enter on (not under the shower head) and the hand shower is on the opposite wall near the shower seat.
2. Shower only.
   
3. I'll need a shower valve (would like thermostatic depending on price)and a diverter. Plus the shower head and hand shower.
4. Pex, 3/4 supply for house, can use 3/4 or 1/2 in. pex to fixtures or use copper to fixtures.
5. shower head, shower head on wall perpendicular to 5 & 6 (front wall of shower)
6. hand shower on one wall perpendicular to showerhead wall (far wall)
7. shower valve on wall opposite hand shower and wall is perpendicular to showerhead (near wall)
8. shower head on wall perpendicular to 6 & 7 above (front wall of shower).

 

[hj]

#3 is the ONLY thing that applies to your selection, and either one is adequate, it depends on which one looks the best to you.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

Pex, 3/4 supply for house, can use 3/4 or 1/2 in. pex to fixtures or use copper to fixtures.

1/2 inch from the WH will give hot water roughly twice as fast vs 3/4 all of the way from the WH.

 

[Pitterpat]

1/2 inch from the WH will give hot water roughly twice as fast vs 3/4 all of the way from the WH.

Really? I didn't realize that... So you're saying I should run 1/2 from my WH to all my fixtures? May not make a difference in my house, WH is about 10' at most from the bathroom and if I move it on the other side of the basement (separated by a 2 x 4 paneling wall) it will be like 7' from the bathroom that is above. Can you explain more or point to something I can read more about that.

 

[Pitterpat]

#3 is the ONLY thing that applies to your selection, and either one is adequate, it depends on which one looks the best to you.

Thanks. I bought the Delta....I like the Moen fixtures better but I was told hands down the Delta is the easier to install and my mom in FL has Moen with hard water, I tried to change out a cartridge on her shower and it was a bear. I can live with the Delta and it will be ok, maybe I'll put a Moen shower head on it.
Thanks!

 

[Reach4]

Really? I didn't realize that... So you're saying I should run 1/2 from my WH to all my fixtures?

The pipe should have enough capacity to carry the water, but I would think 1/2 PEX would usually do that if feeding a single fixture or even a tub/shower and a lav. You need to check that. If you don't use a recirc system, the new hot water needs to displace the room-temperature water in the pipe. The volume in a given length of pipe is proportional to the inside diameter squared. http://www.pexuniverse.com/pex-tubing-technical-specs seems to have some useful info.

There may be other considerations. An advantage of a manifold system is that you can use smaller pipe for hot to get faster hot water at the other end. Disadvantage is that you are running more pipes and probably spending more.

 

[Pitterpat]

Moentrol is the only way to go

Too late for that, already bought the Delta valves.

 

[Jadnashua]

While a larger pipe certainly will take longer to flush out the water when asking for hot, the line still needs to be big enough to supply the water demanded at the fixtures, or performance will be hurt. 1/2" pex is okay to feed ONE fixture, but you will be very disappointed if feeding more than one with that pipe and they are all in use. And, 1/2" pex may end up slowing the fill of your tub. It's more than adequate for a 2.5gpm showerhead, but really tops out at a bit over 4gpm if you hold the water velocity in the pipe to the industry guidelines. Both kitchen and vanity faucets are flow restricted and 1/2" pex will handle them fine. 3/4" is almost exactly twice the volume in the pipe, so yes, it will take longer UNLESS you put in a hot water recirculation system. In my home, prior to installing one, it took over a minute to get hot water to my shower. NOw, it's warm in a few seconds, and hot in less than 10. If you want maximum performance, you'd use a manifold fed with a larger pipe, and then branch off it with 1/2" to the individual fixtures. Or, run it like a tree and branch, with a large enough trunk to handle the demand. One test I read concluded that when you add up the water cost, the cost of heating it, the sewerage costs, and compare that to the energy used to run a recirculation system, if that was on a timer so it was off when most people are asleep, it ended up costing less to operate than not having one , and letting it run 24/7 was a minor additional expense for a huge convenience.

 

[Pitterpat]

NOw, it's warm in a few seconds, and hot in less than 10. If you want maximum performance, you'd use a manifold fed with a larger pipe, and then branch off it with 1/2" to the individual fixtures. Or, run it like a tree and branch, with a large enough trunk to handle the demand. One test I read concluded that when you add up the water cost, the cost of heating it, the sewerage costs, and compare that to the energy used to run a recirculation system, if that was on a timer so it was off when most people are asleep, it ended up costing less to operate than not having one , and letting it run 24/7 was a minor additional expense for a huge convenience.

Thanks Jim,

I have 3/4" run as the main feed and branch off using 1/2" to all fixtures like you said. Recirculating will have to wait until the bathroom / plumbing renovation is done. I'm on a time and $$ budget right now so I have to have everything done by 5/1 for some re-financing I'm doing. I'll look into it. Also, not too worried about other taps being on, I live alone and never shower while the washer is running. thanks again.

 

[Pitterpat]

I have the Delta valve R10000PXWS, the multi-function valve for use with Pex. The top hole is to go to the shower head and the bottom is to go to the tub. I have no tub but got the diverter valve too for a handshower, R11000 I think. I'm wondering can I use the bottom hole to run to the hand shower diverter; I could put a T in the line from the top to the shower head but since I have the bottom available I think it would be just as easy to use the bottom.