Moen Monticello, Mystery Lavatory Faucet?

[Karl in NY]

I know a picture is worth 1,000 words, but no pic (forgot cam while packing for trip), so here's the 1,000 words...

Three china vanity basins in same house, all with same faucets, 4" on centers. A look underneath shows only a machine screw (#12x32?) attaches top hardware to brass mixing-casting underneath, with the screw running parallel and almost touching the riser pipe going to the spout. No retaining nuts below on either the spout or valves, just protruding copper supply lines.

No visible way of servicing from topside, including access to that screw that holds the faucet to the basin. It would appear to have a screw head below the spout escutcheon, which is polished chrome with no set-screws and no wrenching surface. A non-marring strap wrench failed to unscrew that spout escutcheon, if it's even threaded. Also no apparent way to service either hot or cold valves, as nothing at topside seems to be removable.

The faucets are ~20 years old, with no indication of manufacturer. Two local "plumbers" made service calls (both in their 20's, so neither had decades of experience) and neither had a clue, and neither charged
for the call. Most of the valves wobble, but no leaks.

There is no trim plate topside, just the valves and spout mounted in individual holes.

I made an unrelated stop at the local Habitat ReStore today, and they had an identical basin/faucet, and none of their retired tradespeople had ever seen such an arrangement, either.

I know I'm asking a lot, just providing a verbal description, but does anyone here have a clue about these faucets? They don't appear to be rare, as I've seen 4 of them so far in two days. Not your father's Moen, Kohler, or Delta lav faucet, which are always intuitive to me.

Edit: just borrowed a camera, but was only able to get topside pics, due to clutter in the vanities and my multiple spine fractures prohibiting physical contortions.

 

[Smooky]

moen monticello

http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garde...e-Mini-Widespread-Faucet/4040430/product.html

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Karl in NY]

moen monticello

http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garde...e-Mini-Widespread-Faucet/4040430/product.html

Topside looks identical, but looking at parts diagram for the Moen Monticello it is totally different below the basin.
The Monticello lacks the rough brass casting, and has retention hardware below, and no 12x32 screw holding the fixture in place. In addition, the Monticello appears to have valve bodies that are threaded and retained by the "Hardware Package", totally different than what I have. The Monticello parts diagram is at: https://www.moen.com/shared/docs/exploded-parts-views/t4570pt.pdf

I'm beginning to think chinese copy where only the parts that are exposed resemble the Moen, and all else is different.

I just found a youtube video for servicing vintage Monticello at

But it, too, is significantly different than what I have, with no 12x32 retention screw, and it appears to have all the escutcheons retained by set-screws, which mine lack.

 

[Terry]

So you have the old Moen underneath then.
The pdf you posted is the new Moen rough valve.

 

[Karl in NY]

I'm afraid I must answer my own question that is the topic of this thread. I hate it when people do that, but the tip that the faucet looked like a Monticello was the key to my discovery. Thank you, Smooky.

From the following legal link, https://www.usitc.gov/publications/337/pub3332.pdf , titled: In the Matter of CERTAIN TWO-HANDLE CENTERSET FAUCETS AND ESCUTCHEONS, AND COMPONENTS THEREOF:​

On December 29, 1999, the Commission issued a notice that an ID granting complainant's motion for partial summary determination that it had satisfied the economic prong of the domestic industry requirement of section 337(a)(3) by its economic activities in the United States with respect to its Monticello @ 4-inch centerset lavatory faucets had become the determination of the Commission.

The Federal Trade Commission suit was Moen vs. a Chinese entity for making cosmetic replica copies of the Monticello lavatory faucet for distribution in the US. The "guts" of the faucet were redesigned while retaining the exact appearance of Moen's Monticello above the basin, the parts that the consumer would see.

I'm approaching the point where I can't expect to find parts or repair instructions for the Chinese versions that I apparently have.
Nice builder/subcontractor trick on a new home buyer...not being the original owner of the house, I know not whether the substitution was disclosed, but I doubt it. I had a neighbor at another house get all copies of Delta faucets, made in China, with sufficient changes made in the design that Delta repair parts wouldn't work. They were all disposable due to lack of replacement parts.