MMSA - Materials and Methods Standards Association

[JohnfrWhipple]

What is MMSA?
The purpose and objective of the Association shall be to establish standards of quality and performance of materials and methods for installation and use in the ceramic tile and dimensional stone industries.

Who can become a member?
Any corporation, firm, or individual engaged in both the manufacture and sale of products of the industry shall be eligible for regular membership. The number of members shall be unlimited.

Why is MMSA in existence?
MMSA was created to establish industry standards for all materials in common usage in the ceramic tile trade, not just a few made under a license agreement.

What does MMSA do for the ceramic tile contractor?
MMSA serves the contractor in many ways. Representatives of MMSA are members of the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) A108 Committee, the Tile Council of America Handbook for Ceramic Tile Installation Committee, and the Marble Institute of America design manual committee. All members of MMSA share non secret technical data and participate in a free exchange of problems and solutions for the betterment of the tile trade.

How does an installing contractor know if the material he uses is made by a quality-conscious MMSA member?
Look for the MMSA Hallmark on the bag or bucket.

How do MMSA Hallmarked products benefit the installing contractor?

He gains the assurance of using the highest quality material he can purchase and he patronizes a manufacturer who supports his trade.


Information above posted from this link.

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

Joining the MMSA

I filled in the application to join just now. There is no space for Canadian address so I hope they accept Canadian members. I will be curious to see how the voting process is handled and what they ask of their members. So far the group looks small.

Current Members of the MMSA are listed below as are the consult members:

Current Members

• Akzo Nobel
• Amorim Industrial Solutions
• BASF National Applied Construction Products
• Bonsal Company
• Bostik, Inc.
• Custom Building Products
• Dow Chemical
• Ecore
• Garland-White & Company
• Kerneos
• Laticrete International, Inc.
• Mapei Corporation
• Maxxon
• Mer-Kote Products, Inc.
• Noble Company, The
• Oceanside Glass Tile
• Schluter Systems, Inc.
• Specialty Construction Brands, Inc.
• Summitville Tiles, Inc
• Texas Cement Products, Inc
• Wacker Polymer Systems

Consultant Members

• Ceramic Tile and Stone Consultant
• CTC-Geotek, Inc.
• CTL Group
• CTMC, Inc.
• Great Lakes Ceramic Tile Council
• Gregory I. Mowat
• Gundlach Company, Beno J.
• Marble Institute of America
• National Tile Contractors Association
• Tile & Stone Council of N. California
• Tile Contractors of America
• Tile Council of North America
• Zakim & Associates

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Vegas_sparky]

Effective, standardized installation methods seem to be more necessary than material accreditation.

In general, aren't sales driven by what the installer perceives to be the products that go in the quickest, with satisfactory results? You live and breathe this stuff 24/7, and obviously expect the most from everything. The average Joe won't go that far. I see frustration in your future with formal standards, John. Do you think you'll be able to help raise the standards for installation techniques?

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

I'd like to see some simple job site tests for larger jobs and the ability of a homeowner to check the work of an everyday job if they so wish. Not lab test but simple ones. With basic tools.

 

[ShowerDude]

John,
You win the "passionate about my trade"of the decade award.!

Now this is all sounding a bit Roe vs Wade. IMO.


Sales and will always rule and sales is not an honest endeavor.

I think you should start the JWSFGS

"John Whipple Standards For Getting Shit Done"

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

So a week pasted and I was not connected by the MMSA about my request to join. I wonder if they where shutdown for this time period.

Did any one else try and sign up as a member?

Erik can you join? - being American and all that.

Who can become a member?
Any corporation, firm, or individual engaged in both the manufacture and sale of products of the industry shall be eligible for regular membership. The number of members shall be unlimited.

So maybe the wording above means you can only be a member if you manufacture and sell products.
So if you just sell drains like me but do not make them, maybe that means you can not sign up.

Why do we need the MMSA then if that is the case? Is this not the exact same thing the TCNA is? The TCNA lists it's descriptions as this;

Established in 1945 as the Tile Council of America (TCA), the Tile Council was created with the sole purpose of expanding the ceramic tile market in the United States. TCA’s research laboratory has developed and patented many innovative installation materials which have improved ceramic tile installation.

In 2003, the TCA became the Tile Council of North America (TCNA) to reflect its membership expansion to all of North America – Canada, Mexico and the United States.

The Tile Council is recognized for its leadership role in promoting the use of ceramic tile and in developing North American and international industry standards. Additionally, towards the goal of expanding the ceramic tile market in North America, TCNA regularly conducts independent research and product testing, works with regulatory and trade agencies, offers professional training, and publishes installation guidelines, tile standards, economic reports, and promotional literature.

TCNA is a trade association representing manufacturers of ceramic tile, tile installation materials, tile equipment, raw materials, and other tile-related products.


I looked up the members for the TCNA to see if any similar names

Accredited Standards Committee A108 As of October 2013




Voter Representative


Organization


Interest Category

1


BJ Yeh


APA The Engineered Wood Association




General

2


Eugene "Buz" Groshong


ARCOM, Inc.




User

3


James Woelfel


Artcraft Granite Marble and Tile




Labor




Butch Woelfel


Artcraft Granite Marble and Tile (alternate)




4


Steve Abernathy


Atlas Minerals and Chemicals




General




Robert Smith


Atlas Minerals and Chemicals (alternate)




5


Tom Cassutt


Bonsal American




Manufacturer




Beverly Andrews


Bonsal American (alternate)




6


Chad Bulen


Bostik, Inc.




Manufacturer




John Jarnagin


Bostik, Inc. (alternate)




7


Sam Hibbs


Ceramic Tile and Stone Assoc. of Arizona




Labor

8


Donato Pompo


Ceramic Tile and Stone Consultants




General




Steve Raish


Ceramic Tile and Stone Consultants (alternate)




9


Sam Widener


Ceramic Tile Distributors Association




User

10


Scott Carothers


Ceramic Tile Education Foundation




General

11


Gray LaFortune


Ceramic Tile Institute of America




Labor




Dave Gobis


Ceramic Tile Institute of America (alternate)




12


Scott Conwell


Chicago Tile Institute




Labor

13


Susan McClendon


Construction Specifications Institute




General

14


Tim Bolby


Crossville, Inc.




Manufacturer




Noah Chitty


Crossville, Inc. (alternate)




15


Dave deBear


Custom Building Products




Manufacturer




Steve Taylor


Custom Building Products (alternate)




16


James Neel


Dal-Tile International




Manufacturer




Terry Adams


Dal-Tile International (alternate)




17


Martin Howard


David Allen Company


Labor

18


Kurt Von Koss


Detroit Ceramic Tile Contractors Association


Labor




Mike Maiuri


Detroit Ceramic Tile Contractors Association (alternate)




19


Dan Marvin


Florida Tile, Inc.




Manufacturer




Tyson Brass


Florida Tile, Inc. (alternate)




20


Greg Mowat


Forensic Tile Consultants




General




Daniel Dixon


Forensic Tile Consultants (alternate)




21


Roger Barker


Fortifiber Building Systems Group




Manufacturer

22


Scott Fleming


Glass Tile Consultants




General




Tom Prager


Glass Tile Consultants (alternate)




23


Gerald Chioini


Great Lakes Ceramic Tile Council




Labor

24


Robert Wessel


Gypsum Association




General




Michael Gardner


Gypsum Association (alternate)




25


Robert Daniels


Institute of Inspection, Cleaning and Restoration Certification




General

26


Daniel Castro


Interceramic




Manufacturer




Fernando Lozano Assad


Interceramic (alternate)




27


Mike Hawthorne


International Union of Bricklayers and Allied Craftworkers




Labor




John Mason


International Union of Bricklayers and Allied Craftworkers (alternate)




28


Svend Hovmand


ISO TC-189 Committee


Manufacturer

29


Chad Diercks


James Hardie Building Products


Manufacturer




Benjamin Batres


James Hardie Building Products (alternate)




30


Steve Fine


Laticrete International, Inc.




Manufacturer




Mark Brooks


Laticrete International, Inc. (alternate)




31


Lindell Lummer


Malibu Art Tile & Stone




Labor




Gil Chotam


Malibu Art Tile & Stone (alternate)




32


Neil McMurdie


MAPEI Corporation




Manufacturer




Aiping Lu


MAPEI Corporation (alternate)




33


Chuck Muehlbauer


Marble Institute of America




General

34


Jim Whitfield


Materials and Methods Standards Association




Manufacturer




Mike Boenisch


Materials and Methods Standards Association (alternate)




35


Roy Gorton, Jr.


Metropolitan Ceramics/Ironrock, Inc.




Manufacturer




Guy Renkert


Metropolitan Ceramics/Ironrock, Inc. (alternate)




36


Michael Byrne


Michael Byrne Associates




Labor

37


Gary Ehrlich


National Association of Home Builders




User




Larry Brown


National Association of Home Builders (alternate)




38


Chris Walker


National Tile Contractors Association




Labor




Dan Welch


National Tile Contractors Association (alternate)




39


Nyle Wadford


Neuse Tile Service, Inc.




Labor




Paige Smith


Neuse Tile Service, Inc. (alternate)




40


Eric Edelmayer


Noble Company




Manufacturer




Jim Wadaga


Noble Company (alternate)




41


Mindy Costello


NSF International




User




Dennis Gillan


NSF International (alternate)




42


Brian Fitzgerald


Oceanside Glasstile Company




Manufacturer




David Fatula


Oceanside Glasstile Company (alternate)




43


Jamie Farny


Portland Cement Association




General

44


Richard Goldberg


Professional Consultants International, LLC




User

45


Tracy Hall


Radiant Panel Association




General

46


Sean Gerolimatos


Schluter Systems


Manufacturer

47


Armando Bergamini


StonePeak Ceramics


Manufacturer




Rodolfo Panisi


StonePeak Ceramics (alternate)




48


Joe Dutt


Summitville Tiles, Inc.




Manufacturer

49


Stephanie Samulski


TCA Team, LLC




General

50


Mike Micalizzi


TCNA Underlayment Committee




Manufacturer

51


Dale Kempster


Terrazzo Tile and Marble Association of Canada




Labor




Rick Keeper


Terrazzo Tile and Marble Association of Canada (alternate)




52


Gary Rodebush, Sr.


Tile and Stone Council of Northern California




General




Tommy Conner


Tile and Stone Council of Northern California (alternate)




53


Ron Schwartz


Tile Contractors Association of America




Labor




John Trendell


Tile Contractors Association of America (alternate)




54


Bill Griese


Tile Council of North America, Inc.




Manufacturer




Ryan Marino


Tile Council of North America, Inc. (alternate)




55


Josh Jacobs


UL Environment




General




Paul Firth


UL Environment (alternate)




56


Greg Hefele


United Brotherhood of Carpenters




Labor




Steve Fuller


United Brotherhood of Carpenters (alternate)




57


Steve Rausch


United States Gypsum Corporation




Manufacturer




Scott Crandall


United States Gypsum Corporation (alternate)




58


Greg Schad


US TAG to ISO TC-189 WG3




Manufacturer




Tom Plaskota


US TAG to ISO TC-189 WG3 (alternate)




59


Frank Woeste


Wood Construction and Engineering Consultant




General




Peter Nielsen


Wood Construction and Engineering Consultant (alternate)

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

I'm not a math wizard but from looking at these groups it appears that men like me, Roberto, Erik and other tile company's really have no pull or no say in any kind of specification. You would think that the working man - a man who installs these products "Who really is a USER" or a "LABOUR" person can vote on what kind of testing and standards we use.

So from I can figure out today. There are committees of roughly 60 people. The two groups are almost clones of each other. In the end the rules they define are their own and the choice to follow them is voluntary unless specified by "Others".

I'm with Roberto in the thinking there needs to be something better. Something where actual users have a say.

What if the US did this.

Have the entire NTCA member list vote. Have the MIA members vote. Weigh these votes as 20%-30% voting share so at least the majority of tile men can have a little more say.

I think that would go a long way to making things more transparent and give access to more failures to the average man.

Dave Gobis talks online frequently about being a committee person. So does Eric from Noble Company. I just heard a presentation from Dean and these men share similar stories.

100's of failures all over the world. Yet - the details of each are not shared. Unless you are on a committee and in the loop - you are in the dark.

This bugs the shit out of me. But sadly that is life.

I have been a voting member of the ASTM for about two years. In all this time not a single tile related ballot has come across my desk.

 

[ShowerDude]

When I need to pay for member dues is the dividing line for me.

I can follow TCNA this and Marble institute that without paying for it. its good to know and understand their standards, but in the end its just like politics and its all lobbied for very similar to politics.

I take ANSI and MFG specs to the bank. ?