mixing galvanized and ungalvanized steel pipe

Users who are viewing this thread

Tim222

New Member
Messages
29
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Are there any problems associated with connecting galvanized steel pipe to old black steel pipe, in a forced hot water heating system? I need to connect the old supply and return lines to a new steel radiator/towel-warmer, replacing about 5 ft of pipe. Should the new pipe be galvanized, or should I stay with ungalvanized? Because of the placement of the towel warmer, and the need to zig and zag around around some obstacles, there will be six elbows in that new stretch of pipe, if that makes any difference.
Thanks
 

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,603
Reaction score
1,042
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
pipe

For your purposes either material is perfectly adequate. Black pipe and fittings are just cheaper. The number of elbows will only be a factor if you have a MonoFlo system.
 

Tim222

New Member
Messages
29
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Thanks for the replies. The conflicting opinions :confused: make me want to err on the side of caution.

I searched around the web, and found that dielectric unions and dielectric nipples for galvanized-to-ungalvanized scenarios are sold by mcmaster.com -- and that makes me think somebody must regard that dissimilarity of metals as potential trouble, even if it is not as risky as ferrous-to-copper.

More than a few people have told me not to worry. The local plumbing supply also told me not to worry .... but who knows, maybe their business depends on plumbing not lasting a long time? ;)

Anyway, the dielectric nipples and dielectric unions sold by mcmaster.com are not rated for FHW temperatures, according to customer support there. Can anyone recommend another internet supply house?

Thanks
 

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,603
Reaction score
1,042
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
nipples

The piping material, not its coating determines whether you need dielectric protection. Galvanized and black pipe are the same material. Heating system historically have been installed with black pipe, but galvanized pipe and fittings are used interchangeably. Domestic water systems are a fresh water system, and for those galvanized is the only steel pipe that can be used, but because of rusting concerns, not electrolysis. The only dielectric device between two steel pipes would either be something made of steel or brass. The supply houses that told you it was okay, gave you the right imformation. They are not interested in selling you another $1.00 part 20 years from now.
 

Geniescience

Homeowner
Messages
2,137
Reaction score
4
Points
0
Location
humid summers hot, humid winters cold
molecules of iron are still iron whether the pipe gets galvanized or not.


Brass is an unusual metal in that it can be mated to other metals...

Tim, the fact that someone manufacturers nipples made of brass just confirms this and only this.


David
 

northman

Member
Messages
35
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Location
Washington
anyone know how bronze fits in?

is it closer to brass or copper? Just curious as I used bronze unions coming off of dielectric nipples, I suspect it is fine, just curious.

Greg
 

GrumpyPlumber

Licensed Grump
Messages
1,521
Reaction score
57
Points
48
Location
Licensed Grump
According to that scale, uranium is the perfect intermediary.
I'm calling my supplier in the morning, gettin' myself a uranium nipple tray.
Kidding of course, but it sure is interesting.
 

Tim222

New Member
Messages
29
Reaction score
0
Points
1
I have no long-term experience with any of this, being a newbie DIYer. But I am very skeptical when advice contains the phrase "don't worry about it." It doesn't seem quite natural, not to worry. :)

An example: last year, we had to get a new heater, replacing the old one that had been there since WW2 and was originally a coal-burner. The old one was guzzling oil and yet providing no warmth. The warranty from the manufacturer says the warranty is null and void if the sacrificial anode is not checked annually and replaced when necessary. I asked the company who sold it to us and installed it and who does the annual service on it (our heating oil company) about the sacrificial anode when they came to do the annual checkup, and they replied, "Oh, we never bother to check that." I made them check it and note on the receipt that it was OK.

They probably think I am being a PITA, but I am protecting my $10K+ investment. Like changing the oil on a car. When we go to sell the house, I can tell the new owners that the sacrificial anode was checked annually, and that the heater should give them years of trouble-free heat.

Regards
T.
 

GrumpyPlumber

Licensed Grump
Messages
1,521
Reaction score
57
Points
48
Location
Licensed Grump
After thought.
I was so caught up in the interest of reading the galvanic table and "looking at the tree instead of the forest", I forgot to mention...IF you have the pipes open & cut, you might actually think about simply converting to copper, or pex.
Steel pipe is awful with water, rusts from the inside out, rust particles wind up at the bottom of your boiler as well, which isn't good for it's life expectancy.
Most heat lines are run with copper for this reason.
If you can't remove it all, then consider removing as much as you can & use brass connections, unless of course you only have a few feet of the pipe exposed.
 

Tim222

New Member
Messages
29
Reaction score
0
Points
1
GrumpyPlumber said:
After thought.
I was so caught up in the interest of reading the galvanic table and "looking at the tree instead of the forest", I forgot to mention...IF you have the pipes open & cut, you might actually think about simply converting to copper, or pex.
Steel pipe is awful with water, rusts from the inside out, rust particles wind up at the bottom of your boiler as well, which isn't good for it's life expectancy.
Most heat lines are run with copper for this reason.
If you can't remove it all, then consider removing as much as you can & use brass connections, unless of course you only have a few feet of the pipe exposed.

Grumpy,
Your big-picture advice is good, but doesn't fit. We don't have much pipe visible.

Here are the facts that prevent an ideal solution:

1. This is a forced hot water system and the radiator is steel tapped 1/2" FPT
2. We have only 5 feet of original steel pipe exposed.
3. The clearance between the wall and the wall-mounted radiator is 2 inches.
4. The only metal PEX-to-NPT adapters are made from is brass (that's all I have been able to find, anyway).

#1. I have not been able to find dielectric unions rated for FHW. 180 degrees F. When I phoned mcmaster to ask about them, they stressed "Not for FHW".

#2. If, under the tile floor, we replace the last 5 feet of old steel with something else, galvy or copper, we still have dissimilar metals in the transition adapter. See #1 above. I do not like the idea of a brass-to-steel adapter being invisible under a tile floor; if it were to fail, would be expensive to repair.

#3. If we put a steel zero-length nipple [not sure of their proper name -- nothing but facing tapered threads: this <> rather than this <|||> ] into the radiator and also into the union, we cannot fit a 1/2" NPT union in the two inches, and would then have to run supply and return to the wall-mounted towel-radiator from the floor, or transition to a brass-adapter/copper-sweat connection.

#4 If we use a short piece of PEX to solve the 2" clearance problem, with 1/2" MPT-to-1/2" barb adapters and a small 2" piece of PEX, we have dissimilar brass into the steel of the radiator and into the old steel supply and return lines. [These connections are both visible, so this is probably a decent solution.]

#4a For FHW temperatures, Zurn engineering support said I should NOT use their potable water PEX because it is only rated for 140 degrees, but to use instead their oxygen-barrier PEX. EASIER SAID THAN DONE. Zurn is in the process of beefing up its retail supply, and I have not been able to find oxygen barrier PEX from the big retail stores or even from the local plumbing supply houses that all the pros swear by. On the internet, I found a source who sells in 100' coils. All I need is four 2-inch pieces.

#4b Local code, I believe, requires the PEX crimps to be visible.

Thanks for any suggestions. I think brass PEX adapters into the steel is probably the solution; at least I can see the connections and examine them for corrosion periodically. Using brass will probably void the radiator warranty
;)

T.
 
Last edited:

GrumpyPlumber

Licensed Grump
Messages
1,521
Reaction score
57
Points
48
Location
Licensed Grump
Tim, NO LIE, I just got an email today from a customer I installed a Buderus for, the wall mount condensing model (GB-45).
He was so excited over his gas bill he had to tell me.
One third last years, and that was just the DHW (hot water) which runs a few percent less efficient than the heat.
Good choice.
As for the piping, at this point I'd just measure it, get precut nipples and a steele union, well doped.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks