Method to unstick pump?

Users who are viewing this thread

ChiefEngineer

New Member
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Texas
Well pump won't budge with 6-ton hydraulic jack. 20+ years old on one-inch polypipe in 4 inch galvanized casing.
Pressure only 18psi max. How to dump muriatic in (down the pipe or just down the well and how much)? Water level is 100ft.
I have also heard of people cutting the pump off and leaving it then dropping another. Any advice appreciated. Suspect
leak at clamp to pump--put check valve on top of well to prevent backflow...still works---just not great.
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,599
Reaction score
1,296
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
Acid is not good unless you can pump it back out. But maybe your only option. Just get a new pump in and pump the well clean as soon as possible as acid will eat on the steel casing. Acid can also make dangerous fumes!!!! Not safe to work with.

Might try just leaving a hard pull on it overnight and see what happens. If you get it out go back with a 3" pump.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,796
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
Nu-Well 100 Water Well Rehabilitation Pellets works on calcium etc, and is not so hard on steel.
 

ChiefEngineer

New Member
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Texas
Thanks for those responses. I snaked an orthodontic USB camera a couple
feet down and there is a lot of corrosion on the casing. Calcium is also a big
issue in the water here. There is some sort of "4x-cased" drop apparatus
that seems to contain both the polypipe and the wires--does anyone know
what this is...there is no room to really put anything else down there?

my_photo-12.jpg
 

ChiefEngineer

New Member
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Texas
Sorry about the bad quality. It is this yellow casing and it turns out it is
NEXT to the pipe...I finally got a third jack and this is as high as they will lift
the assembly. I left it stretched overnight and whatever is holding it down there is still
sticking...I may be able to get it higher with a come-along and winch but there
is a really solid professional roof on this wellhouse and there is no room in that
corner for a tripod. I'm thinking a beam with a stout eye-hook next. I don't
suppose there is any chance this thing might tear loose right above the pump?
The electrical wire casing is a 4X chamber and looks tougher than the pipe.
 

Attachments

  • jackedUP.JPG
    jackedUP.JPG
    113.5 KB · Views: 79

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,796
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
Is the pipe stuff on the right maybe fighting your attempt to raise the well string? I am worried about breaking that check valve.

The wire should have been long enough to not be taking the tension.
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,599
Reaction score
1,296
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
Yeah you need to take it apart at the union. It is making it heavier even if it is not going to break off.

Probably just stretching the poly pipe. You would be surprised how much poly will stretch.

While you have a nine line bind on it you might try hitting the side of the casing with a sledge hammer.

If the pipe and wire break off at the pump, sometimes you can pound the old pump down and set another pump back in there. Even if it won't pound down any, you maybe able to set another pump just above the old one. Depends on where the perforations are.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,796
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
I am thinking of putting some 4x4 pieces inside the 2x4 studs, and compressing down against those. Maybe a third 4x4 section could be a third leg pressing against the concrete floor.

Also check that there are at least 2 worm gear clamps holding the pipe. You probably do, but checking should be easy.
 
Last edited:

ChiefEngineer

New Member
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Texas
You guys are great. Thanks for the ideas. I should have mentioned there is another union I put in (out of sight) that I detached so there is no stress and allows me to manually pressure/adjust the pipe as I raise it. Since I am not running with a pressure tank I have to open it at the lowest point anyway when it is off since it has been freezing here for the second time in history. I'm not sure how to envision the 4x4 and the "pressing down" dynamic. I am pretty sure there are 2 clamps on the poly/steel barb encased in a lot of good tape. I am guessing the "sledge-hammer whack" would send some vibrations down the casing...the galvanized is encased in a PVC collar through the concrete so I am not sure I would get much of a shockwave through the plastic but maybe I can rig something up to buffer the blow. In the meantime you may notice I put the mightiest screw-eye I could find through a double stud and hung a Harbor Freight winch on it. I am afraid to hook it underneath the split cap and damage the electrical connection (advice?) I am taking bets: A) Same result...it just steretches up and stalls; B) Something "gives" like my hose clamps; C) The screw-eye deforms and the winch flies in my face. It is a good winch...it pulled down a major hackberry tree dangling over my barn.
 

Attachments

  • winch.JPG
    winch.JPG
    97.5 KB · Views: 75

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,599
Reaction score
1,296
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
Yeah the concrete block will prevent much of the shock of whacking it with a sledge hammer. Whacking the steel pipe may even break the concrete. But as a last ditch effort I don't know what else to try as pulling harder will just stretch or break the poly pipe.
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,599
Reaction score
1,296
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
Over shots, tapered spears, and other types of recovery bits are used when something has been dropped and is loose in the hole. When a pump is stuck your only choses are pull it loose or pound it down to the bottom of the well. They don't make a bit that will fit in 4" casing and grind out a stuck pump. Sometimes they pull so hard the casing comes out with the pump. In that case you just have to start over and then don't use 4" steel casing ever.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,796
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
Well drillers have pump recovery bits that go on the drill truck. They either yank the pump or blast it to smithereens and vacuum the debris. It may suit you to ask around for this option.
I don't think they blast. But they do often shove the pump, they cannot raise, to the bottom.

I know they sometimes run a pipe and drive air from a big engine-driven compressor down to try to free the pump. In the one case I am aware of, that did not work, and they had to push the pump down.

When you replace that pump, you will want to use a Grundfos SQ 3-inch pump.
 

ChiefEngineer

New Member
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Texas
OK, thanks. I have this really well-built wellhouse that doubles for other stuff and deconstructing it to bash the pump down is a sad prospect (not to mention a truck would have to traverse long areas where it
will sink and leave mega mud ruts). As you can see my winch has not destroyed the eye-hook it is on, and it is quite tensioned...like the effort to take it further fills me with fear. How much farther up do you think I ought to go just to leave it overnight? Nobody in this part of Texas has heard of Nu-Well 100 Water Well Rehabilitation Pellets...but I am willing to order some from the NJ link on this site...then tension it some more? How much should I get? Do I just dump a jar of them down there and let them sit for 48 hours? I paid a well guy already who couldn't budge it by hand, then told me to call this guy with a truck. The new guy wants to dump straight acid down there before trying anything else. Given the age/state of the casing it seems like I would end up digging another well....so I am doing everything I-and-you-good-people can think of first.
 

Attachments

  • winched-up.JPG
    winched-up.JPG
    94.8 KB · Views: 63

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,599
Reaction score
1,296
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
You might be better to cut your losses on that well and just start over. You could very well spend a lot of money and time on getting it unstuck, then still have to move over and dig a new well. Try calling Cotey Chemicals in Lubbock. They are very informative about what works and what doesn't and also have products that might help.

If you do end up drilling a new well, use larger casing and PVC if possible. Also put it in a place where it won't be impossible for a contractor to get a hoist truck in there. Don't build a permanent top over the well. When you call a contractor he should be able to back right up to the well, have plenty of height to work with, and be able to open a trap door easily and go to work. Pitless adapters are wonderful for some of those reasons.
 

ChiefEngineer

New Member
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Texas
Update: 2 days under tension and 10 sledgehammer whacks did NOT free it, however
upon reassembly the pressure is 10psi+ higher. Does that bode well in anyone's mind?

A word about my mindset: I was the responsible (from concept to completion) executive for some
of the largest international computer networks of the 20th century. I saw presidents of major corporations lose their careers over approving solutions where there was no graceful reversibility of change. Thus,
my AMAZEMENT at a well design that enables this. I owned a really deep, good, very old well in Missouri. I
saw a well at festung-koenigstein that was 450 years with a working pump installed in 1918.

I asked a well guy about dropping a camera down there. He said it wouldn't tell me much and to try a couple gallons of muriatic. What if the pump is stuck in sand? It coughs plenty of it up every time it starts. What if someone put a casement "liner" down there as a last resort and stuck a pump in it? What if someone jammed a second pump down there already (this property was going through bankruptcy when I "rescued" it). Why would anyone but a moron build a wellhouse over a pipe in a corner unless it was some final act of desperation?

The Cotey people say they sell to distributors who sell to tradesmen. None sell to me so I am trending toward Nu Well Tablets...thus my question about their application--again: reversibility of change on a functioning system. I am grown and can do my research if anyone is worried about blame.

I am "imagineering" when this fails that what now produces
30psi could do so indefinitely WITHOUT BACKPRESSURE (full head) to worsen whatever fissure
may or may not be present. I am drawing a design
whereby I pump into a cistern with a float cut-off controlled by my pressure switch, then use an on demand smaller pump to pressure my tank. Can anyone suggest a good pump for this with it's own controller?

If/when the well dies I might have something that could be used for rain catchment that I could tie into my house main with a check-valve while a new well is dug.



 

LLigetfa

DIYer, not in the trades
Messages
7,497
Reaction score
575
Points
113
Location
NW Ontario, Canada
Update: 2 days under tension and 10 sledgehammer whacks did NOT free it, however
upon reassembly the pressure is 10psi+ higher.
Maybe the vibrations affected the accuracy of the gauge. Have you confirmed it with a second gauge?

If the pump draws up sand, then that sand had to pass through the narrow annular space between the pump motor and the casing which in turn can bind up when trying to raise it. Maybe the vibrations dislodged some of the sand in the annular space.
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,599
Reaction score
1,296
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
Sorry for your problem. You could just pull until something breaks. It will most likely come off at the pump, but sometimes it breaks in the wrong place. I would probably try to pull the wire until it broke, as it will usually come loose at the spice or motor. Once the wire is out of the way I would drop a cutter over the pipe and lower it to the pump. While pulling on the pipe I would cut the pipe off at the pump. Then I would run some steel pipe down the well and try to pound the pump further down. If the pump goes down that would be great. But if it didn't I would try to set another pump just above the old one.

But if it is still pumping water, just not enough pressure, your cistern idea will work as long as that pump keeps working. Here are a couple of drawings that might help. You will either need a jet pump or a submersible well pump to draw from the cistern.
LOW YIELD WELL_ CENTRIFUGAL_PK1A.jpg


LOW YIELD WELL_SUB_PK1A.jpg
 

ChiefEngineer

New Member
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Texas
Thanks. Great diagnosis on the sand. The beautiful schematics made my day (in between
turning my breaker on/showering/off). Fantastic step-by-step of the cutting process. And no, I did not check using a second gauge but can tell
it is true visually with what bursts from a test hose...I have to run a separate hose into my pool
just make sure the pressure is potentially lessened and not making some possibly-illusory hole worse.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks