Master Bath Renovation

[wwhitney]

I didn't find a reducer bushing from 4" to 1.5" so planning to go from 1.5" to 2" before I enter the crawl space. I used 2" to 1.5" reducer bushing, a 22, and a 45.

I'm confused by the reference to 4", which lav is this, the one wet venting the WC, or the one wet venting the tub and shower? Since it appears to be on the right, from your drawing that would make it the latter, but then you mention some downstream 4" pipe.

The LT90 would not allow an escutcheon to sit flush with the wall, but it is hidden behind the drawers anyway so I am assuming the LT90 and some foam are better off than a regualr 90 and an escutcheon...

If it the escutcheon bothers you (and more broadly that the curvature is enough that the bend sticks out of the wall), you could switch to a quarter bend if you turn it down to at most 45 degrees off plumb. If 45 degrees hits the floor too soon, you could go horizontal lower, and then use a quarter bend into the floor. Not sure that's worth it.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Arnav]

I'm confused by the reference to 4", which lav is this, the one wet venting the WC, or the one wet venting the tub and shower? Since it appears to be on the right, from your drawing that would make it the latter, but then you mention some downstream 4" pipe.

No, this is lav1 on the left (when entering the room or looking at the pics above) or right if you are looking at the floor plan drawing. It is the one that wet vents the WC so I do need to go from 1.5" to 4". I am planning to transition from 1.5" to 2" right before the crawl space and from 2" to 4" inside the crawl space.

If it the escutcheon bothers you (and more broadly that the curvature is enough that the bend sticks out of the wall), you could switch to a quarter bend if you turn it down to at most 45 degrees off plumb. If 45 degrees hits the floor too soon, you could go horizontal lower, and then use a quarter bend into the floor. Not sure that's worth it.

Yeah, I am not going to bother. It is hidden and will not be seen unless the vanity's drawers are removed. Good to know how it could be done though.

Working on Lav 2 now (but need some fittings from HD later on tonight first)...

 

[Sponsor]

 

[wwhitney]

No, this is lav1 on the left (when entering the room or looking at the pics above) or right if you are looking at the floor plan drawing. It is the one that wet vents the WC so I do need to go from 1.5" to 4".

OK, then the 1.5" to 2" upsize makes sense if all the WC drain pipes are existing 4" and you just need to bring the 1.5" lav drain to it to wet vent it. Because if you are redoing any of the WC drain, I would think it would make sense to do that new work in 3", and just upsize to 4" to connect into the old work, thereby going from 1.5" to 3" to 4".

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Arnav]

1. I am redoing all the pipes leading to the main 4" pipe. I don't trust any of the existing work. No primer was used, it is not supported, and failed before as well. However, the WC is literally off the 4" tee. Please see:. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/toliet-connection-jpg.77047/. The 2" comes into the tee in the pic.
I this case 4" to the WC makes sense no?

2. Can a clean-out be installed on its side as oppose to vertically (i.e. the pipe going right to left as oppose up-down) assuming the correct pitch is maintained?

Thx!

 

[Reach4]

2. Can a clean-out be installed on its side as oppose to vertically (i.e. the pipe going right to left as oppose up-down) assuming the correct pitch is maintained?

Yes, but try to make the opening on top. Think of a pipe full of drainage, and you are opening the plug.

A wye tilted up at 45 degrees or more is good to minimize spilling, unless you need a flush fitting.

 

[wwhitney]

1) If the 4" pipe to the left of the 4" wye in your picture is staying, but the wye and upstream is being changed, I'd be inclined to just put a 4" x 3" "reducer" to the left on the 4", and use a 3" wye for the WC, with a 3" x 1.5" bushing on the straight inlet of the 3" wye (or to make 4x1.5x3 wye you could use a street 3" wye into the 4x3 reducer with the 3x1.5 bushing).

Of course, there's no 4" inside either of the houses I've worked on, as 3" is good under my code (UPC) for up to 3 WCs, which limit is not exceeded. The transition to 4" occurs only at the sewer. So I may be biased against 4".

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Arnav]

I forgot to remind you that what you saw above is changing to include another tee where the wet vent from Lav2 + tub + shower comes in so I was going to do the attached (at this thread's recommendation). Not sure if that changes anything.

 

[wwhitney]

That doesn't change anything, but if you prefer to use 4" and not use any 3", that's fine. I guess the upshot is that 4 x1.5" bushings are available (or you could nest a 2x1.5" bushing in a 4x2" bushing), so I don't see the upside to enlarging the lav drain early from 1.5" to 2". But there's also nothing wrong with doing it, so probably my comments on this aspect are not actually useful.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Arnav]

Always useful.

I guess the upshot is that 4 x1.5" bushings are available

Did you really find 4 x 1.5" bushings? I didn't find any at all. The Charlotte pipe catalog doesn't list any as well: https://www.charlottepipe.com/Documents/DimensionalCatalogs/Plastic_Pipe_Fittings_DC-DWV(609).pdf

I think crud can get between double bushing so I thought maybe to gradually go from 1.5" to 2" and then 4".
But, I'll keep my options open...

 

[wwhitney]

Did you really find 4 x 1.5" bushings? I didn't find any at all.

OK, I spoke too soon, the first hit I got is a 4" SDR 35 x 1.5" DWV. You could put that in a 4" DWV x 4" SDR 35 bushing (which is just a thin cylinder) and there should be no issue of creating any extra gap for crud (not sure why that would typically happen with nested bushings). But that's a bit weird.

How about a 4x4x1-1/2 wye with a spigot cleanout adapter in the straight inlet for a cleanout?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Arnav]

How about a 4x4x1-1/2 wye with a spigot cleanout adapter in the straight inlet for a cleanout?

So the 4" pipe is obviously not readily reachable in the crawl space. It is right above a focal point (a big projection screen) so I rather not add an access panel.

Does this transition from Lav2 to the raised platform looks right? I wanted to show you before I cut into furring strips and copper pipes. All the pipes / fittings will be flush against the wall obviously.

A long 90 elbow with a longer vertical drop would make it easier instead of the 45+22, but I am assuming this is better and I shouldn't switch?

Thx!

 

[wwhitney]

On the lav 2 fixture drain, the only concern would be that both 90s should be LT, I can't tell from the picture.

If your AAV tubular tee is 1-1/2" and you have a 1-1/2" trap adapter in the vanity, I'm not sure that a 1-1/2" threaded cleanout gains you much. You can remove all the tubular from the cabinet easily and get a 1-1/2" opening to snake the line; the threaded cleanout just gets you past one elbow (and maybe the opening is a bit larger, being 1-1/2" IPS rather than 1-1/2" OD).

On the geometry, if you'd rather do trap adapter (horizontal) - LT90 - horizontal - quarter bend - vertical - LT90 - horizontal under the platform, that would be fine. I don't have any reason to say that would be better or worse than what you show, it's only 22.5 degrees more of bend.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Arnav]

On the lav 2 fixture drain, the only concern would be that both 90s should be LT, I can't tell from the picture.

Good eye. The 90 on the right by the floor is long. The 90 by the trap arm is not. A long one eats too much into the limited space for the arm (making a repeat of Lav1). I was going to ask if I can transition from a sweep 1.5" elbow to a 2" pipe right after the turn but I think that is uncommon. I then saw that a quarter bend 2" has the same curvature of a sweep/long 1.5" elbow so I stuck with the quarter bend 2". Another option is to continue with 1.5" all the way to the next fitting and use a bushing on the fitting. I don't think that will break any of the wet-vent rules for the tub+shower?
Note: The Studor magic adapter was just delivered so I'll see if that frees up room for the sweep 2" 90.

If your AAV tubular tee is 1-1/2" and you have a 1-1/2" trap adapter in the vanity, I'm not sure that a 1-1/2" threaded cleanout gains you much. You can remove all the tubular from the cabinet easily and get a 1-1/2" opening to snake the line; the threaded cleanout just gets you past one elbow (and maybe the opening is a bit larger, being 1-1/2" IPS rather than 1-1/2" OD).

I was going by this post. See, I am listening...

2) For the 1-1/2" lav fixture drain, with a trap adapter under the sink, you can remove the trap and use it for a cleanout. I'm a bit unclear on what if any cleanouts should exist on the 2" pipe. Obviously you can access the branch drain through the lav fixture drain, but a 2" cleanout would give better access. And your layout does have a lot of horizontal bends.

But I agree, it looks like a marginal improvement (and I can use all the space back there). I'll omit.

On the geometry, if you'd rather do trap adapter (horizontal) - LT90 - horizontal - quarter bend - vertical - LT90 - horizontal under the platform, that would be fine. I don't have any reason to say that would be better or worse than what you show, it's only 22.5 degrees more of bend.

Exactly, In fact instead of the quarter bend it can be a sweep/long one as well (pls see attached pic).

Thanks for all the help

 

[wwhitney]

I was going by this post. See, I am listening...

My comments today were based on the idea that everything in the pictures is 1-1/2". If you run 2" from the cabinet to the first wet vented fixture (where you must have 2" after you combined the two drains), then I agree a 2" cleanout in the cabinet would be useful. Whether it's worth the trouble to do that, versus just use 1-1/2" for the lav fixture drain and using the trap adapter for any cleanout access, I don't know.

Exactly, In fact instead of the quarter bend it can be a sweep/long one as well (pls see attached pic).

For drains turning from horizontal to vertical, you can use a quarter bend; a LT90 is also fine, not sure if it's a plus or just neutral.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Arnav]

Fair enough. So here is the final dry-fitted (and obviously not fully inserted) layout going from Lav2 and wet venting the tub then the shower (as advised earlier in the thread).
I made a new hole through the sub-floor half way between the tub's drain and the shower's drain. The 2x4 donates where the 2x6 raised platform will start.
Looks good?

Not showing:
- Correct pitch off the sub-floor (but will use 1/4" per foot)
- Correct orientation of the p-traps (duh)

Many thx!

 

[wwhitney]

Looks good to me.

Don't assume the subfloor is level unless you've checked it and it's perfect--if it's off, it's not a good reference for setting your 1/4" per foot slope. Use a level with a spacer (e.g. a 2' level with a 1/2" spacer at one end) or a laser level.

Cheers,
Wayne

 

[Arnav]

Great point/tip. I didn't think about it. will do.

With the layout finalized, I'll
- Make sure I don't hit any joists below
- Nail down the sub-floor
- Cut holes for the p-traps
- Demo the ceiling below so that I have access and work on the layout in the crawl space leading to the 4" main drain.

Also, I got the IPS / Sutdor trap adapter and it is awesome. It results in a much narrower configuration, uses two less slip joints, and half an inch shorter arm than my DIY contraption.

 

[Arnav]

I am an idiot. The tee and pipe in the crawl space is 3" not 4". You win!
I see a trip to HD in my future. On the bright side, it does make things much easier (e.g. the Lav's 1.5" transition straight to a 3" bushing)

EDIT: It is weird, the WC pipe and flange is 4" and the builder used a reducing 4" to 3" 90. Is that suppose to help the WC flush?

EDIT 2: I do like how the WC flange sits inside a 4" pipe as oppose to the outside of a 3" pipe so I will probably keep the same setup.

 

[Reach4]

If you are gluing a joint where getting the angle just right is important, you might consider the Charlotte ConnecTite® Push-Fit DWV Fittings. They cost a premium, but can allow you to rotate. Glue cannot rotate.

Most joints won't need that feature.

 

[Arnav]

Oh wow. these are cool. Didn't know they existed. Redoing the pipes within the existing joists will be a pain and these may come in handy.
I am just about to remove whole bunch of ceiling drywall so I can access the crawl space.