Master Bath Renovation

[Arnav]

Is that for supporting the countertop or what? If it's for the countertop, it would be fine to interrupt it for your plumbing

Yes. Its a floating vanity so it is secured to this double 2 x 6.

So it'd be like post #2, either with the san-tee as you have or as I originally proposed, with a wall box cut into the ledger and possibly that top rail of the vanity.

I can potentially cut just into the bottom portion of the 2x6. How much bigger do I need to cut out the wall box? An inch from each side of the AAV?

BTW, are you going to be install sheetrock between the furring and the vanity? That would be typical.

Yes, only that in this option, I need to leave a wall cavity for the p-trap and AAV since they would not fit behind the drawer and drywall.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/master-bath-renovation.95140/page-3#post-693879

Thanks for all the help. I have a few options to think about and chose from.

 

[Reach4]

I haven't seen any guidance on how the 4" requirement is measured. From trap arm inside bottom, center-line, or top? To top of threaded fitting that receives the AAV, or some point on the AAV (bottom, diaphragm, top)? Do you have a reference?

Bottom of second column of column 2 of page 1 of https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.supplyhouse.com/product_files/Oatey-39017-User-Guide.pdf
Not a great diagram.
https://ipscorp.com/pdf/studor/Spec-MiniVent.pdf has less info.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[wwhitney]

Yes. Its a floating vanity so it is secured to this double 2 x 6.

Ah, it's a double 2x6 (which matches the 3" strapping depth), and the vanity is floating (which I probably overlooked). So maybe notching the 2x6 should not be done quite so glibly as I suggested in my earlier post. But if you'd only have to notch one 2x6 , that would likely be fine.

I can potentially cut just into the bottom portion of the 2x6. How much bigger do I need to cut out the wall box? An inch from each side of the AAV?

You need to find a spec sheet for a ventilated wall box you can source, and check the dimensions.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Arnav]

If its all the same, i think this will be the easiest for me. Tweaked for all tubular. This way:
- The ledger board or vanity don't need to be notched.
- The copper pipes can stay where they are and lead to lav 2.
- With lots of elbows, tons of wiggle and freedom regardless of where the sink is.
- it is slimmer and it may fit behind the drywall without an outlet box

Copper question.
1. There is 3/4" copper leading to Lav 1.
2. A reducing fitting makes it to 1/2" for Lav1 supply value.
3. The 3/4" continues to lav2 where it again reduced to 1/2".
There is a picture of it here: https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/pipes-1-jpg.74945/

Out of curiosity, is the 3/4" between the two lavs so that if lav1 is running there is less flow impact on lav2?
Maybe it is pointless and I can run 1/2" copper to Lav2 because past Lav2 the same 1/2" copper also supplies the Tub and the shower,

Good week ahead.

 

[wwhitney]

On the DWV part of your question only, that's fine if all the tubular (and the AAV) is inside the vanity and accessible.

Assuming your drain needs to drop down out of the vanity while jogging into the furring, the conventional use of the san-tee is with the outlet downwards, not horizontal. A pair of 45s could jog into the furring before exiting the bottom of the vanity, I would assume. [If not, then with your san-tee orientation, with a quarter bend turned 45 degree off plumb and a 45 in the furring would do it. But you'd want to be sure the tubular doesn't stick too far into the san-tee and cut off the vent connection on the top.]

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Arnav]

Will do re the santee orientation.

I had a breakthrough this morning (I am off this week). The benefit of a fresh look.
Please tell me this is allowed connectivity wise. It results in extremely short trap arm which is what I needed.

If so, I'll run to HD and get a tubular slip join tee like they use for double kitchen sinks (in which case the entire contraption can be mostly tublaur).
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbil...k-Drain-Center-Slip-Joint-Tee-C9679/205153788

Thx!

 

[Reach4]

lease tell me this is allowed connectivity wise. It results in extremely short trap arm which is what I needed.

Not allowed.
What you have there is called a "crown vent". You need for the trap arm out of the U to stay horizontal for at least 3 inches before the vent.

 

[Arnav]

haha, ok. I tried! Thx for the speedy response.

 

[Reach4]

For a lavatory, you can use a 1-1/4 inch trap. You can feed a trap adapter with a 1-1/2 inch trap or a 1-1/4 inch trap by using a different washer and choosing a trap adapter that uses a separate washer. The horizontal part needs to be 2x the nominal trap size, so the 1-1/4 inch trap allows the trap arm to be 1/2 inch shorter that if you use a 1-1/2 inch trap, if that helps.

Looking back at all tubular 2.jpg and all tubular 3.jpg these don't seem to be showing the same tailpiece location. Is this the drains for two different bowls?

Note that to change out the AAV, you need to be able to unscrew the old AAV. So you can't butt the AAV right up to the bottom of the counter.

How about a front-view photo from about trap height with the drawers that you plan to work behind removed. Include the place where you need to feed the drainage into the wall.

You might find https://rectorseal.com/magic-trap-kit/ of interest. I am thinking it would not fit your case, but it still could be interesting.

 

[Arnav]

I stopped at the bath place to measure the sink until they deliver it. The drain is 8.5" away from the wall (!). Coupled with the fact that I have no wall cavity, 3" furring and a floating vanity I rather not cut into, i think indeed I require a very small arm. In fact, at least in my situation, there is no way to fit a tubular p-trap (1-1/2 or 1-1/4) and an AAV on the same perpendicular trap arm. I can make it all on the same perpendicular arm with a non-tublar p-trap (link to image) but you said the preference is tubular anyway.

You might find https://rectorseal.com/magic-trap-kit/ of interest. I am thinking it would not fit your case, but it still could be interesting.

Yes, I looked at it. I think it is quite possible to emulate yourself with parts they sell in HD. See attached pic with various tubular parts I found. I played with them a little but in my case the issue the the p-trap arm length.

Looking back at all tubular 2.jpg and all tubular 3.jpg these don't seem to be showing the same tailpiece location. Is this the drains for two different bowls?

No, no. Both are of the left side lav of the double vanity. In one pic I just opened the drawer.

How about a front-view photo from about trap height with the drawers that you plan to work behind removed. Include the place where you need to feed the drainage into the wall.

Attached are zoomed in pics of the right hand side Lav. Left side is the same only that the copper pipes has the old supply valves. In the wide view you can see the drain under Lav2 that Lav1 will drain to. As discussed in this thread, Lav2 will wet vent the tub and shower so it will drains all the way to the right of the pics.

Anyhow, since I think you were ok with my proposal (lav1 proposal.jpg - attached below) I think I am good. I was able to optimize it further with a tubular 90 pipe I found in HD so right now I only have one extra slip joint than I would otherwise have. All good no?

 

[Reach4]

Take your p-trap, and instead of putting the trap arm in the same plane as the U part, try swinging the U part about 160 degees to put the U along the trap arm. (now it looks more like a P). Does that do anything for you?

WAIT-- check https://studor.net/au/pageid/products-trapvent
https://www.ipscorp.com/pdf/studor/STU021_TrapVent_web.pdf

 

[Arnav]

WAIT-- check https://studor.net/au/pageid/products-trapvent
https://www.ipscorp.com/pdf/studor/STU021_TrapVent_web.pdf

Those are cool. I remember seeing similar ones in this thread: https://terrylove.com/forums/index....ht-of-bathroom-drain-under-open-vanity.93968/ (only that the one you linked to also have an integrated vent).
I couldn't find them anywhere. I spoke with IPS and they are discontinued. If its any consolation, they were only in the UPC not IPC, and everything has to line up just right to make them work (i.e. you don't get the lateral adjustment a regualr p-trap has).

But... I combined all the suggestions provided thus far by you Reach and Wayne, and I have one more configuration I think I can make work.
- I made my own "magical" trap adapter
- I turned the p-trap around.
- Used 1-1/4" p-trap since the pipe from the sink's drain is 1-1/4" anyway.

Please see pics. Drawbacks:
- The p-trap entry is 1/4" to 1/2" off to the side from the mid-point coming down from the sink but I think these slip-joins have quite a bit of give.
- The contraption rubs against a soft plastic part of the drawer which may be ok.

So what I have done is order this trap adapter from IPS/Studor: https://ipscorp.com/pdf/studor/Spec_AAVTee.pdf
It will require less slip joints than the magic trap adapter (or my own) and I think it will result in a narrower configuration so hopefully it will avoid the rubbing against the drawer.

It will be here tomorrow, so lets see.
Either way I think we have a winner. I'll try and make it work. Thanks for all the help

 

[Reach4]

But... I combined all the suggestions provided thus far by you Reach and Wayne, and I have one more configuration I think I can make work.
- I made my own "magical" trap adapter
- I turned the p-trap around.
- Used 1-1/4" p-trap since the pipe from the sink's drain is 1-1/4" anyway.

Nice. Bend is allowed to be medium, tho long is always better. You could consider a "spigot" trap adapter that would glue right into the bend. That gives you more freedom to slide the drain assembly in or out. Maybe I am missing something.

 

[wwhitney]

A couple comments:

- I wonder what the allowable degrees off plumb on the AAV is, if you rolled the AAV tee a little then you could possibly better center the trap inlet left-right.

- The Schedule 40 LT90 you show as horizontal could instead have its outlet vertical or 45 degrees off plumb, depending on how you need to route the lav drain for your downstream wet venting.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Arnav]

You could consider a "spigot" trap adapter that would glue right into the bend.

Oh, got you. Nice. That will take off another ~1" . The issue with this configuration is not so much the length of the tap arm anymore but more the fact it is hard to align the p-trap directly under the sink's drain (pls see above). Either way, I'll look for them and give it a shot. I do have a question about these. The trap adapter I am using is found in the tubular aisle next to the p-traps. The "spigot" trap adapters are found in the pvc fittings aisle. They don't come with a washer. Are you suppose to provide your own (not an issue) or are they supposed to work without a washer? Looking at my cheat sheet from a previous bathroom remodel I did in the house, I noted for example that this one didn't work out (no washer): https://www.homedepot.com/p/NIBCO-1...Slip-Joint-Trap-Adapter-C48017HD112/100345781
Whereas this one did work out (comes with a washer): https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbil...Joint-Nut-and-Washer-C9000A/205153892#overlay

Maybe it didn't work out simply because I haven't supplied my own washer or are they materially different?

 

[wwhitney]

The first one you linked to should have a washer integral to the nut.

You'll need to get a 1-1/4" x 1-1/2" reducing washer to use on the inlet of your AAV tee, but otherwise everything should be 1-1/2".

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Arnav]

The first one you linked to should have a washer integral to the nut.

Weird, I'll try it again when I am in HD. From memory, the 1-1/2" tubular slid freely in and out of it. Not sure why I noted these down in the "things that didn't work" section.

You'll need to get a 1-1/4" x 1-1/2" reducing washer to use on the inlet of your AAV tee, but otherwise everything should be 1-1/2".

yeah, that's what I did.

 

[Reach4]

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbil...with-Rubber-Reducing-Washers-C2698C/205154062 comes with a nut.

Not sure what https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbil...p-Joint-and-Reducing-Washers-C2699C/205153665 has, but I would expect it to include a Reducing Washer.

Others may have a favorite Reducing Washer.

You would not want a washerless trap adapter for this.

 

[Arnav]

I missed your post

I wonder what the allowable degrees off plumb on the AAV is, if you rolled the AAV tee a little then you could possibly better center the trap inlet left-right.

"A maximum deviation (in either direction) for plum of 15 degrees is allowed"
IPS Redi-vent (page 16) is what I am using 20DFU: https://ipscorp.com/plumbing/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Studor_Technical_Manual.pdf
Otay AAVs: https://images.thdstatic.com/catalog/pdfImages/95/95c3aa10-8add-426b-8581-1d784b420d9b.pdf

 

[Arnav]

The Schedule 40 LT90 you show as horizontal could instead have its outlet vertical or 45 degrees off plumb, depending on how you need to route the lav drain for your downstream wet venting.

Proposed connectivity for the notorious Lav1. I didn't find a reducer bushing from 4" to 1.5" so planning to go from 1.5" to 2" before I enter the crawl space. I used 2" to 1.5" reducer bushing, a 22, and a 45.
The LT90 would not allow an escutcheon to sit flush with the wall, but it is hidden behind the drawers anyway so I am assuming the LT90 and some foam are better off than a regualr 90 and an escutcheon...

Thx!