Lowes Dishwasher installation

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by ddagsyn, Sep 10, 2008.

  1. Dunbar Plumbing

    Dunbar Plumbing Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Occupation:
    Service Plumber, Outdoor Temperature Relief Owner
    Location:
    Northern Kentucky/Greater Cincinnati Area


    My response to that foolishness:


    First of all,

    There's no such thing as a "Hot Water Heater"

    It's called a WATER HEATER, not a HOT Water Heater.

    One more time, It's a Water Heater.

    Secondly,

    Certified isn't what plumbers are; they are LICENSED. Licensed Plumbing Contractors.

    Thirdly, when you have a contractor come to your home, if there is a language barrier, you have the right of refusal in your court because another company like Home Depot cannot force you to learn another language because they hire those who don't speak your same language.


    I've seen this too many times where the consumer wants rock bottom pricing and they go by the droves to the big box stores because BOTTOM PRICE gets the signature on the reciept.

    It's hard for me to believe that people live in neighborhoods for years without having established a relationship with a reputable plumber and not think of calling a local tradesman, but instead a large corporate affiliation because the bells and whistles of economizing strikes the pose to do so.

    This in turns brings a numbing effect to your complaint, knowing the risks you took when you searched for Rock Bottom in your quest to save money, rather than hiring a competent plumber in your area.

    At some point you have to register with logical thinking that there is a reason why hiring a professional costs more than the local big box store. You're testament above should be more than a hint.



    I truly don't feel sorry for some people when these situations play out.


    And when they do? I try to intervene asking for names and numbers, the customer has a change of heart and says, "I don't know, I'll have to check and I don't know what their name is."


    Suuuuuuuuuure.
     
  2. ddagsyn

    ddagsyn Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Texas
    No, I don't expect him to pay for anything. Infact i have already purchased a new line for him to install. Like i said earlier i think he did a sloppy job and i am not going to accept it.
     
  3. ddagsyn

    ddagsyn Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Texas
    Yes mine did the same he replaced the copper line with a braided steel parked below my dishwasher. Yeah and he kept the copper too. I wanted to ask him for it but let it go.
     
  4. ddagsyn

    ddagsyn Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Texas

    Well this guy said he taken a course in appliance installation. He did not have a plumbing or electrical license although he told me his boss had a license. Don't know how it works but maybe that qualifies him...Just guessing.
     
  5. krow

    krow Plumber

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2008
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    At best, that could qualify him as an apprentice.

    The big box stores do not pay the going rate for qualified personel to do any type of work. If you see any licensed tradesmen working for the BigBox stores, it would be out of desperation for lack of work.

    For all the plumbers out there, Imagine doing this DW install for $70-$80, materials included.:eek:
     
  6. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Occupation:
    Tech. Instructor
    Location:
    S. Maine


    When the phone don't ring, you'll know it's me
     
  7. 99k

    99k Radon Contractor and Water Treatment

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2008
    Occupation:
    Contractor of Radon Reduction, Testing, and Water
    Location:
    Fairfield Co.,Connecticut
    At least the guy doing the DW installation used the proper materials. I had a customer one time complaining to me that the kitchen floor was pushing up. I decided to look under the dishwasher to make sure it wasn't leaking.

    I was shocked what I found. While I didn't see a leak, the Sears installer used what appeared to be fuel line hose and hose clamps to make the hook-up. The hose in one area had expanded to three times its diameter.

    I informed the homeowner that disaster was eminent, told him to get the installer back ASAP, and got out of there mucho fast.
     
  8. Dunbar Plumbing

    Dunbar Plumbing Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Occupation:
    Service Plumber, Outdoor Temperature Relief Owner
    Location:
    Northern Kentucky/Greater Cincinnati Area


    They do about 8 to 10 a day, usually a two man or husband/wife, bf/gf scenario.


    Drive a ton of fuel out of their vehicle and are always collecting the old ones.


    I couldn't do it....I cringe when I'm sucked into replacing a dishwasher. :mad:
     
  9. krow

    krow Plumber

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2008
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Whats your point? Thats not realistic

    Even if they did 8-10 a day, it makes for 12-14 hour day. Lets assume it will take at least 1 hour per install (assuming its only a re&re)Plus traveling time

    In my experience there is alot of lost time that you cannot charge for. You will also find that 80% of installs also will have installations that were botched from the previous unit, and you are elected to fix it as part of the installation (or hidden costs to the customer, which is a great start for a complaint)

    So, $80 x 10 calls/installs = $800
    average material costs re&re only $30/unit= $300
    Leaving $250 per person after a 14 hour day, which translates to $17.86/hour per person
    No self respecting plumber will get out of bed for that kind of spare change

    In my neck of the woods ,(if I were to reach 10 installs /day), it would cost between $1500-$2000 in total, including material and repairing previously botched installs.(assuming I can do this in a 10 hour day maximum. I could never do this because of the lost time involved)
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2008
  10. Dunbar Plumbing

    Dunbar Plumbing Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Occupation:
    Service Plumber, Outdoor Temperature Relief Owner
    Location:
    Northern Kentucky/Greater Cincinnati Area


    My point?


    It's that it does happen, realistically.


    I've worked around these guys off and on for years and they bust their asses off to make any kind of money.

    Most do it without the guide of a master's license to pull permits and the only way they make money is to group calls in areas, do it lightning fast.


    I charge $200 for dishwasher replacements and stops 99% of customers committing to use me. That's good.

    Too many variables on those when the floor locks them into place, bringing it up to code because the ****tard didn't install an Air Gap.


    I nailed a contractor to the cross last year from Lowe's for doing just that; bypassing the Air Gap and feeding the head of the property owners that a soap dispensor is more important.


    $393 later and I made sure they was aware that if I catch them installing another one against code, the inspectors will be following you everywhere I follow them, every day when they pick up their product. :D


    Last thing we need is an out of towner plumber who tests out for the masters to pull permits, only to ignore the local codes because "it takes longer."

    Not with me breathing the same air...
     
  11. krow

    krow Plumber

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2008
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    As I said, no self respecting plumber will get out bed for that kind of spare change ($18). You are right, too many variables . You don't know what you are going to find once you get there. (don't you just love when they raise the kitchen floor 1 1/2" around the DW and you have to get it out?:eek:)

    Its the BigBox stores that are polluting the trades.
     
  12. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Occupation:
    Sensitivity trainer.. and plumber of mens souls
    Location:
    indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
    Wont touch a dishwasher either.....



    I totally agree --the big box stores are competeing with the plumbers , but are not actually playing fair either...

    working under a master lisc isnt the same as being one
    or being a journeyman plumber either...



    So these fellows work for peanuts and dont even
    know what they are walking into till they show up on the job.....


    I have gone out to find the dishwasher imbedded into the floor with an
    inch of new parkay wood nailed down right up to the front of the 30 year old original unit...


    it takes a chain saw to literally cut the unit out of the floor
    and they have to do it for 80 bucks.....and not ruin the kitchen floor either....

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I tried to work for lowes back in 01 for a few months
    and I thought I had seen everything.....

    people buy a toilet and expect it installed in their home
    you show up and find the old one has sunk down about
    3 inches into the rotten sub floor...

    you just shake your head and leave

    and they call the store and complain that you
    would not do the work for the price that was quoted to them........


    wow....what a deal......
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2008
  13. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Occupation:
    Tech. Instructor
    Location:
    S. Maine
    In New Hampshire, to work under a Master or Journeyman the licensed plumber has to be on the site. A local plumber got bagged last week because he went for the coffee and left his apprentice working on the site when the state inspector showed up. Only got a warning but now he knows the rule.
     
  14. Winslow

    Winslow Plumber

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Hawaii
    I oly use copper tubing on dishwashers. It is not a good idea to use flexible tubing in enclosed spaces where you cannot readily inspect it.
     
  15. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Location:
    Ohio
    What would be the down side of a braided stainless DW supply line???

    In my own personal experience I have seen more soft copper leaking at the DW connection than I have braided stainless, my guess is due to vibration. It only takes a min. to remove the kick plate and inspect, thats how I find the leaks.
     
  16. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Occupation:
    Plumber, self employed
    Location:
    Licensed Grump
    Einsteins theory of box store appliance installation:

    Cheap = Angry customer squared

    The proportion of anger is directly relative to the size of price.

    Here, we see an appliance installed almost free of charge, and one VERY angry customer.
     
  17. ddagsyn

    ddagsyn Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Texas
    Update on the installation

    He came back to redo the installation i.e remove the supply line and electrical from under the dishwasher. I was not home at that time. He told my wife that replacing the supply tube would be considered a new install. My wife told him that he needed to talk to me and called me on my cell. After waiting for him to come on to discuss; instead my wife came back on and told me he agreed to replace the supply line. Only thing he refused to let us keep the supply line removed although we paid for it and also paid for the new one he installed.
    Debating whether to take that up with lowes but leaning towards letting it go.

    He later called me and apologized for talking badly to my wife.
     
  18. Dunbar Plumbing

    Dunbar Plumbing Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Occupation:
    Service Plumber, Outdoor Temperature Relief Owner
    Location:
    Northern Kentucky/Greater Cincinnati Area
    I'd done be at the house making mince meat out of this fool



    Nail that son of a bitch to the wall. I'd be all over this like white on rice if my wife was verbally abused by a stranger.



    Why are you holding back? People normally don't learn from their mistakes unless money is involved, meaning the loss of.


    I got a good one going right now: Lowe's installed a water heater almost two years ago and it's wrong, they charged for items including an inspection from the state and none was done.


    It's going to be fun and my carrot that I'm chasing is the payment for correcting all the code violations as a result. It's a hobby that pays me.


    PM me if you want specific instructions how to get your money back on that install, an apology and a reprimand given to the installing contractor for the nasty incident involving your wife.
     
  19. spebby

    spebby New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    I once overheard an installer talking badly to my wife, I was working in my home office. I thought, man you have no idea what you have gotten yourself into. The wife started on him like a scalded cat, he left so quickly he forgot some of his tools.
     
  20. jamesj

    jamesj New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    I thought this was a joke... lets face the truth here, master plumbers correct me if Im wrong but...
    that peice of copper tube may be worth 35 cents. Copper is a buck a pound or so.... its NOT a pound of tubing. I throw them away because its not worh my time.
     
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