Low Set Toilet Flange Options

[C Heath]

I removed a Toto toilet because of a gaseous smell to find several stacked wax rings and a flange recessed 1 1/2 inches below the tile in the concrete slab of our basement. The concrete was crudely cut out, but not enough to place spacers on top of the original flange. What is the best option going forward?

1. Use a Danco Perfect Seal
2. Cement a Jones Stevens Long Barrel Close Flange into the existing 3" PVC pipe
3. Use a Sioux Chief PushTite Closet Flange (888-GPM)

Other suggestions? Many Thank!

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

I prefer the flange fix over a tall gasket. Theres a lot that can happen to that gasket in that 2" of height difference. Where as if you bring the height of the flange back up to normal tolerances, you have a solid platform and are back to using normal wax or gaskets.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

Spacers under a Sioux Chief 888-GPM sounds good to me, if the red gasket hits where there is 3 inch pipe.

On https://terrylove.com/forums/index....ng-3x4-lead-drain-pipe-on-3-steel-pipe.60569/ #10 I show a photo with dimensions for the old 888-GPM with the stainless steel ring. Those are no longer available. But the dimensions may be close on the all-plastic version. The (D+F) dimension is the one you would mainly care about.

Personally, I would tend to avoid gluing in an all-plastic flange, and I think not gluing at all has its advantages for somebody who might not get it right the first time.

 

[C Heath]

I prefer the flange fix over a tall gasket. Theres a lot that can happen to that gasket in that 2" of height difference. Where as if you bring the height of the flange back up to normal tolerances, you have a solid platform and are back to using normal wax or gaskets.

Thanks!

 

[C Heath]

Spacers under a Sioux Chief 888-GPM sounds good to me, if the red gasket hits where there is 3 inch pipe.

On https://terrylove.com/forums/index....ng-3x4-lead-drain-pipe-on-3-steel-pipe.60569/ #10 I show a photo with dimensions for the old 888-GPM with the stainless steel ring. Those are no longer available. But the dimensions may be close on the all-plastic version. The (D+F) dimension is the one you would mainly care about.

Personally, I would tend to avoid gluing in an all-plastic flange, and I think not gluing at all has its advantages for somebody who might not get it right the first time.

Thanks, I ordered one of these and will give a look!

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

The last Toilet that I went out to pull and reset due to a deformed wax gasket was sitting on that exact flange. Looked good

 

[C Heath]

The last Toilet that I went out to pull and reset due to a deformed wax gasket was sitting on that exact flange. Looked good

That’s encouraging. Thank you very much for the information. Any advice on spacers to use with this device? I need a total elevation of about 1 1/2 inches to meet the tile floor. Also, what’s the best way to secure the spacers and new flange to the original?

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

The kits I've seen come with spacers of varying thickness. 1/2, 1/4, 1/8" spacers that are full circles just like the flange itself.

I would both use Long bolts from the original flange through the new flange that are long enough. Probably what is there now. If you have a full spacer under where the bolts are, then you could nut and washer that flange down with the bolts.

 

[C Heath]

Everyone, thank you very much! Fantastic advice. I will post a follow up picture once I finish

 

[C Heath]

With all of your help, here is a picture of the before and after. I guess the only question I have now is should I fill the surrounding gap in the concrete/tile with foam or ? I have 1 1/2 inches of spacers, but it seems pretty stable

 

[Reach4]

Looks good, but having the top of the flange maybe 1/4 inch above the top of the floor would have been a tad better than below floor level. Less gap for the wax to handle if you plunge into a partially closed drain line.

I don't know what would be good for your gap between the slab and the rings.

 

[C Heath]

Looks good, but having the top of the flange maybe 1/4 inch above the top of the floor would have been a tad better than below floor level. Less gap for the wax to handle if you plunge into a partially closed drain line.

I don't know what would be good for your gap between the slab and the rings.

Thanks, I went ahead and set it about 1/4” above the tile. Should be good to go.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

1/4" Above is normal for a flange set after finished floor goes in. Test fit your toilet with no wax first just to make sure.

 

[Reach4]

1/4" Above is normal for a flange set after finished floor goes in. Test fit your toilet with no wax first just to make sure.

Also, position the shims during that test fit.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Also, position the shims during that test fit.

Yes. Something that I learned from these forums that I'd never done before.

 

[wwhitney]

should I fill the surrounding gap in the concrete/tile with foam or ?

I would think it would be fine to leave empty, unless that floor is part of your air barrier envelope (e.g. over a vented crawlspace). In which case I would think it would make sense to remove the new flange and spacers, seal the pipe to the subfloor (the details of which would depend on the gap there), and reinstall everything.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Reach4]

I would think it would be fine to leave empty, unless that floor is part of your air barrier envelope (e.g. over a vented crawlspace). In which case I would think it would make sense to remove the new flange and spacers, seal the pipe to the subfloor (the details of which would depend on the gap there), and reinstall everything.

Suppose there was a drain line clog. Then vigorous plunging blows out the wax seal. Continued plunging drives solids out over the flange...

I might want that space filled in that case.

 

[wwhitney]

Suppose there was a drain line clog. Then vigorous plunging blows out the wax seal. Continued plunging drives solids out over the flange...

I think that vigorous downward plunging is to be avoided? I.e. better to slowly compress the plunger, then vigorously pull it upward to pull a negative pressure?

I might want that space filled in that case.

Any suggestions on how to reversibly fill the various voids? You've got the flange-tile gap and the gaps within the spacers.

If the flange itself were fully above the tile, then you could cut a piece of sheet metal to lay over the tile, with tight holes for the flange and bolts. But with the thicker plastic flange on that Push Tite I expect part of the flange is below the tile.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Reach4]

I think that vigorous downward plunging is to be avoided? I.e. better to slowly compress the plunger, then vigorously pull it upward to pull a negative pressure?

I agree, but vigorous pull upward could breach the wax too. So plunging should be fine if the clog is in the toilet trapway, but if the poor flush is due to a clog downstream of the toilet, then plunging could blow out the wax.

Terry has described a process where short strokes maybe resonate to remove toilet clogs.

Any suggestions on how to reversibly fill the various voids? You've got the flange-tile gap and the gaps within the spacers.

I don't know. I am thinking maybe caulk.

Incidentally, I suspect that a thinner gap filled with wax will be less likely to blow out for a given pressure, than a taller gap filled with wax. It seems evident to me. I think this could be studied with some materials math. Recent anti-horn thoughts notwithstanding, I suspect a a horn on the wax could also reduce the incidence of blowout.

 

[Treeman]

I wonder what a pro would do? The outside gap could be filled with some type of thin mortar product. That would lock it from any sideways movement. Plastic shims gently pushed in at 5 to 6 places would prevent sideways movement. Low expansion spray-able foam would fill the voids.