Low pressure with filters

[CablingPro]

We have a well with a new submersible pump 1/2HP, 10gpm 62 gallon Amtrol tank set at 40/60 psi, 50 micron mesh sediment filter (iSpring WSP-50), followed by 20-inch String Wound Filter 4.5, 2.5 cuf acid neutralizing tank followed by Whirlpool 33,000-Grain Water Softener. The said system feeds the main house (two people) and a cottage down the hill with one occupant. Cottage is about 120ft down from the main house and it gets the water over ¾ copper pipe. Water is acidic Ph 5.8 and hard: 14.97 gpg.

Ever since we’ve installed the sediment filters, the problem we’ve been facing at the cottage frequently gets low water pressure to the point of tricking as the cottage. Initially we thought it was the actual sediment that’s clogging up the filters, but now it’s happening with new filters. As soon as I open the bypass vale above the filters I hear the water swoosh through the valve and the pressure at the cottage goes back to normal. As if the filters were creating significant impedance for the flow.

Now, I don’t want to keep bypassing the filters as there’s significant amount of sediment coming from the well which isn’t good for the water treatment systems down the line.

I’m thinking running untreated water supply directly after the pressure tank down to the cottage and there maybe install a small acid neutralizer system there. Not sure what the options are.
I'm skeptical about any water pressure boosters.

Any ideas/tips are appreciated.

 

[Bannerman]

Have you attempted removing the filter cartridge from the housing to establish if the restriction continues when un-bypassed and no cartridge to impede flow?

As you state the restriction continues to occur with a new cartridge, perhaps something solid has become dislodged and has become trapped in the feed lines or valves to/from the filter housing or within the filter housing itself.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[ditttohead]

Is the cottage fed by gravity only? Why are you skeptical of a pressure boosting pump?

 

[Reach4]

How hard would it be to put a pressure gauge between the filters? You could put in a boiler drain valve. You can connect a garden hose thread pressure gauge to a boiler drain valve when you want to check pressures.

Your first filter is a spin-down filter. For the second filter, removing the cartridge for testing should be very informative.

For your next filter cartridge, you might look at the Pentek DGD-5005-20 filter. It will be cheaper than that string-wound filter. I don't have a good feel for the relative merits of pleated, spun, and string wound.

Keep a spare o-ring on hand. Lightly lube the o-ring with silicone grease each time you handle the O-ring (I use Molykote 111, but there are other good ones).

 

[CablingPro]

Is the cottage fed by gravity only? Why are you skeptical of a pressure boosting pump?

Yes, it's gravity only and it appears to be working. When I run on bypass the pressure at the cottage is a few PSI higher than at the tank before all systems at the main house.

 

[ditttohead]

Gravity fed through 3/4" pipe... the problem is likely that you are pushing the limits with the existing plumbing system without filtration. With filtration... the straw that broke the camels back.

 

[Bannerman]

Gravity?

I seem to be missing something as it was stated in the OP: "The said system feeds the main house (two people) and a cottage down the hill with one occupant." As the "said system" includes a well pump and Amtrol tank with pressure set to 40/60 psi, I interpreted that to mean the cottage is fed by the pressurized distribution system, not by gravity.

 

[CablingPro]

Have you attempted removing the filter cartridge from the housing to establish if the restriction continues when un-bypassed and no cartridge to impede flow?

As you state the restriction continues to occur with a new cartridge, perhaps something solid has become dislodged and has become trapped in the feed lines or valves to/from the filter housing or within the filter housing itself.

Both pentek filters have been inspected and there are no obstructions.
I'm going to run on spin-off 50micron filter only (both big blues w/o cartridges) and see what difference does that make.
I suspect that the feed pipe between the houses is a contributing factor for sure. It's a 3/4 copper in ground, possibly from 60s.
I second the idea of putting a PSI gauge after the filters. It only makes sense.

 

[CablingPro]

Gravity?

I seem to be missing something as it was stated in the OP: "The said system feeds the main house (two people) and a cottage down the hill with one occupant." As the "said system" includes a well pump and Amtrol tank with pressure set to 40/60 psi, I interpreted that to mean the cottage is fed by the pressurized distribution system, not by gravity.

I shoud have been clearer. Yes, there's a pressure tank and gravity helps too.

 

[Bannerman]

gravity helps too.

Of course, but that does not make it a "gravity only" feed to the cottage.

 

[Reach4]

kontech, consider setting the pressure switch higher. What is the pressure setting now.

When you increase the pressure switch setting, you also need to raise the air precharge.

Cottage is about 120ft down from the main house

How much is the altitude change?

 

[Bannerman]

I suspect that the feed pipe between the houses is a contributing factor for sure. It's a 3/4 copper in ground, possibly from 60s.

The water line to the cottage does not appear to be the issue as you previously stated, the flow rate to the cottage is immediately increased and acceptable when the filters are bypassed.

As the flow rate is reduced when flowing through the filter(s) but flow increases when the filter(s) is bypassed, that seems to signify an issue with a filter. Although the problem was only evident initially when the filter cartridge was dirty, you state the same restriction is now occurring with a new clean filter, thereby seeming to indicate an issue with the filter body or associated plumbing.

What type of valves are utilized for isolating the filters? If globe valves, suggest removing each cap and valve stem to inspect the washers and seats. If a washer or seat is loose or broken, that can restrict flow which will vary depending on the position of the loose item.

If gate valves are used, a gate may have become detached from the stem and so is not opening fully even as the valve stem will unscrew and it appears the valve is fully open.

 

[CablingPro]

The water line to the cottage does not appear to be the issue as you previously stated, the flow rate to the cottage is immediately increased and acceptable when the filters are bypassed.

As the flow rate is reduced when flowing through the filter(s) but flow increases when the filter(s) is bypassed, that seems to signify an issue with a filter. Although the problem was only evident initially when the filter cartridge was dirty, you state the same restriction is now occurring with a new clean filter, thereby seeming to indicate an issue with the filter body or associated plumbing.

What type of valves are utilized for isolating the filters? If globe valves, suggest removing each cap and valve stem to inspect the washers and seats. If a washer or seat is loose or broken, that can restrict flow which will vary depending on the position of the loose item.

If gate valves are used, a gate may have become detached from the stem and so is not opening fully even as the valve stem will unscrew and it appears the valve is fully open.

No question, the filtering system is the main culprit. The plumbing is about two months old, that includes 3/4 CPVC ball valves, 20" Pentek filters, etc and I don't suspect it being an issue. The last time pressure dropped in the filters yesterday it was barely noticeable at the main house but exacerbated at the cottage at the same time.

I have put a PSI gauge after the filters today, flushed all filters and moved the cartridge (Hydronix SWC-45-2020) to the 2nd Pentek for kicks. First one has no cartridge now. So far the pressure is pretty equal before and after. Will monitor it closely the next few days. My hunch is this is going to come back. Perhaps I need to find a fine compromise between sediment filtering and sustainable water pressure.

I was tempted to up the pressure on the switch to like 70 (currently at 40/60) but I'm concerned how much more can 16 years old Amtrol tank take.

Side note, all of the water treatment systems including sediment filters have been put in place earlier this year. Naturally, prior to that there were no obvious pressure issues at the cottage.

 

[Reach4]

I have put a PSI gauge after the filters today, flushed all filters and moved the cartridge (Hydronix SWC-45-2020) to the 2nd Pentek for kicks. First one has no cartridge now.

If the sediment is heavy enough, a lot of it can settle into the empty sump.

I was tempted to up the pressure on the switch to like 70 (currently at 40/60) but I'm concerned how much more can 16 years old Amtrol tank take.

That should be no problem. A Well-X-Trol tank is rated for 15o PSI I think, and others are something over 100.

 

[CablingPro]

Yup. The pressure keeps dropping past the filtering system.
Short term, I'm going to up the pressure on the tank.
Long term, I'm going to have to be looking at at pressure booster type of system be be installed in the cottage. Any recommendations?

 

[CablingPro]

One vendor recommended Grundfos booster pump to be installed inline at the cottage.
Would a system with a small pressure tank paired with a pump be more adequate?

 

[ditttohead]

A booster tank may work but sucking water from existing plumbing can create some problems. I would ditch your filter manufacturer and go with a USA made pleated filter rather than the Chinese melt blown. he USA pleated have a very low pressure drop.

 

[CablingPro]

Here's an update. I believe the root cause has been identified.
After the water flow had almost stopped the other day we decided to run it without any cartridges in the 20' pentek housings but only with 50 mic spin-down filter (WSP-50) in line. It turned out to be that spin-down filter. Despite no visual sediment in it, after having the mash removed the water flows just fine, with the 30 micron cartridges in place. Oh, and the the pressure drop is minimal. isn't my choice.

 

[Reach4]

Here's an update. I believe the root cause has been identified.
After the water flow had almost stopped the other day we decided to run it without any cartridges in the 20' pentek housings but only with 50 mic spin-down filter (WSP-50) in line. It turned out to be that spin-down filter. Despite no visual sediment in it, after having the mash removed the water flows just fine, with the 30 micron cartridges in place. Oh, and the the pressure drop is minimal. isn't my choice.

Nice.

Maybe you could get a courser screen. The FWSP200 is the 200 micron screen.

 

[ditttohead]

Maybe replace that mini filter with a properly sized filter.

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/156-157