Low Flow Well, Two Houses...Pump Controls?

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by winesalot, May 17, 2018.

  1. winesalot

    winesalot New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Location:
    Chelan, WA
    If you are reading this please look at post #3 below for more details on the project.

    Getting ready to build and trying to wrap my head around the control system for our well pump.

    Here is the scenario: We have well that produces 4 gallons per minute that will be shared with two homes. I would like to have separate cisterns for each house with individual float controls in both cisterns that turn on the well pump and open a solenoid valve to direct water to the appropriate storage tank. Each home will have it's own secondary pump in it's respective cistern to supply the house.

    Does this seem logical? Thoughts? Where would I find the parts and pieces (or complete system ) to make this happen?
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  2. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Occupation:
    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The best way to control the level of multiple cisterns in different locations is to use a solenoid valve and float switch in each cistern, and have the well pump controlled by a pressure switch and tank. Personally I would use only one cistern so the turnover from multiple users would keep the water fresher. You can put multiple pumps with controls pumping out of the cistern to each house, or one larger pump that supplies all the houses. Either way will work though.
    LOW YIELD WELL_and storage with two PK1A one pipe.jpg
     
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  4. winesalot

    winesalot New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Location:
    Chelan, WA
    My reasoning on multiple cisterns are: The neighbors we share the well with are no where near the start of their building process and we are so not including them in our design seems to make the most sense. Also, we are putting in a house, tasting room and winery so we will have a bit more extensive of a system than them...more on that below.

    And now for more information. I have attached a sketch of the site. It shows a house and tasting room on the upper lot and a wine production building on the lower lot. This has changed a bit and, instead, there will only be a house on the upper lot and we will put in one larger building down below for the production and tasting functions. There is a 100' elevation change between the two building sites. We are also going to be required to provide extra water storage for fire protection for the commercial buildings on the lower lot only. The fire department is ok with ther potable water being the source for fire water. The well is located next door to us on the upper section. The tanks are required to be buried.

    I like your idea of the submersible pump being operated by a pressure switch and each storage tank. In your drawing you have a bypass around the storage tank supplying the house directly. Why is that? Also, my understanding is that the pressure tank acts as a buffer to prevent the pump from cycling too often. If we had 1000's of gallons of storage in multiple tanks plumbed together even a 2-3" float switch span would represent quite a bit of pump run time and the pressure tank seems unnecessary.

    Another question. Since the 100' elevation change represents around 44 psi increase in pressure I am assuming I would not need to pump the water to the lower building as long as the pipe size ensured no friction loss on the way down. Does this make sense?
    001.jpg
     
  5. Boycedrilling

    Boycedrilling In the Trades

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2013
    Location:
    Royal City, WA
    What part of the lake are you on? Have friends in Chelan and Manson. I lived in Wenatchee for 25 years. Live in Grant county now.

    What you are describing is not a do it yourself project. You are talking about a Group B community water system. The winery makes it a transient non-community water system. Have you talked with the Chelan-Douglas community Health District yet? Your system will have the same requirements as a restaurant, church, or H2A housing on a private water system.
     
  6. Boycedrilling

    Boycedrilling In the Trades

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2013
    Location:
    Royal City, WA
    Has Fire District 7 told you how many gallons you fire protection reservior will have to be?

    We haven’t had to put any fire protection in for H2A housing. However the storage condos at Crescent Bar had to put in 70,000 gallons for fire protection.
     
  7. winesalot

    winesalot New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Location:
    Chelan, WA
    I am aware of both the Washington State Health Department requirements for the well and the requirement to have the system designed by an engineer. However it is legal for me to install it myself. The engineer we are working with is helping with the permit but is open to me being involved with the system control design...thus the discussion. I am not interested in discussing the fire requirements on a public fourm but we will be ok on the required storage volumes.

    I would prefer to stick with the topic of how to control the system if that is ok.
     
  8. greenmonster123

    greenmonster123 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Location:
    Sag Harbor, New York
    Even with storage tanks, 4 gpm shared between a vinyard operation and two other homes seems like a stretch. Why aren't you drilling your own well for this facility?
     
  9. winesalot

    winesalot New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Location:
    Chelan, WA
    I didn't say vineyard. We have non potable irrigation water for the vineyard. 4 gallons per minute is 5760 gallons per day which is WAY more than we need for domestic water.
     
  10. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Occupation:
    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Washington State is one of the only states smart enough to have adopted the use of Cycle Stop Valves, which they did over 20 years ago. Listed under Appendix B here. https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/Pubs/331-123.pdf

    The tank sizing chart is out of date, which shows a larger pressure tank than needed, but it won't hurt anything except to waste some space. So You will need to use a 40 gallon size pressure tank with the CSV instead of the 4.5 gallon size tank we now use and is shown in the drawing above.

    With multiple cisterns the well pump will need its own CSV, pressure tank, and pressure switch. This way the pump will come on and off as needed, no matter which cistern is calling for water. This also allows for the bypass line from the well pump to the house, so the well pump can be used to supply the house directly in the even the cistern pump quits working. It is just a way to have water directly from the well until you can get the booster pump repaired, as these things usually happen at the worst time like over a holiday.

    You could gravity feed from a cistern at the top to a cistern at the bottom. But pumping directly from the well you can just put a 4 GPM restrictor on the way to the lower tank and gravity won't have much to do with it.
     
  11. greenmonster123

    greenmonster123 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2015
    Location:
    Sag Harbor, New York
    Ok, a thousand pardons. My point was why would you want to share well with your neighbors? seems like you're investing a lot of money into this project, why not Drill your own well And be independent?
     
  12. winesalot

    winesalot New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Location:
    Chelan, WA
    Because it was already drilled by the developer before we bought the property and a new one is roughly $20k,
     
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