Loose green tea leaves blocking kitchen drain

[Robbie_d]

UPDATE:
Yesterday:
I added boiling water to the drain, and there was some slow drainage, during the day, but that stopped when I plunged again after letting the water out of the trap cleanout. It seems I re-clogged it.
Over last night (that's 10 hours worth of time), there was no drainage, at all.

Today:
I emptied the drain and added boiling water and plunged and the clog was still clogged 100%.
Since I added a second pot of boiling water and plunged again, I see there is now a very slow drainage (maybe 1% of drainage) happening, again. I see the drainage when I placed a knife tip pointing to the water-edge of the puddle in the sink. The puddle became a bit smaller so that the knife-point is OUT of the puddle.
If that make sense.

 

[Reach4]

I would be able to put a snake into the square headed-cleanout hole "1" and get to (or in) the iron pipe.

Yes.

Once the snake is into the wall, would the snake successfully follow the drain pipe down? I don't know.

Is a 3/8 hole in the clog going to be good enough for you? I don't know.

Do put a strainer screen in the sink drain, and empty that into the garbage when you collect something.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Robbie_d]

Yes.

Once the snake is into the wall, would the snake successfully follow the drain pipe down? I don't know.

Is a 3/8 hole in the clog going to be good enough for you? I don't know.

Do put a strainer screen in the sink drain, and empty that into the garbage when you collect something.

Hi,

Thanks.
From what I see on youtube about snakes, they go down the pipe quite well when it's fed down the pipe.

A small 3/8" hole in a clog is NOT good, I admit, but I think it's better than no drainage at all. It's a start, I think.

When I empty the drain, I place a pot under the trap when I remove the trap cleanout and let all the water go into the pot. Then I flush all of that down the toilet.

I have asked some questions in a recent post. I don't think you saw them.
I'll post this comment now, and then go find the post with those questions and then add the post number here so you can suggest anything.

The post was number 20.
Robbie

 

[Reach4]

I have no idea why you've mentioned, "Roots", and then telling me, "You'll have to call somebody."
What do you mean, please?

He mentioned that because it was back on post #3 where you said you were a tenant in a second story apartment. Roots clogging lines of a house is not a DIY thing.

I am wondering, will this clog eventually unclog itself if I keep plunging and using hot water and removing whatever crap comes back, in the water, when I empty the drain? Or will it become worse and worse?

That was the only paragraph of post #20 with a question mark.

I did not know the answer, and I was surprised you were bringing crap back up. Also, when you said empty the drain, I was thinking of the hole in the bottom of the sink bowl. I guess you might have been referring to the plug on the P-trap. Most P-traps don't have plugs.

If you undid the banded/shielded coupling, you could pull a section of stuff loose, and have nice access for cleaning the piece you temporarily pulled out. It is not as big a deal as I think you are thinking. I have used a 2-inch Fernco Proflex and totally removed the metal. The ends come apart. What I mean is that it opened up to a C-shaped cross-section from its O-shaped cross-section, and I could put it on the pipe with the rubber in place. Usually you slide the metal, and leave the clamps connected. But at least for the kind I used, there could be an opening of the metal tube to a curved sheet of metal with a gap between the two ends of each clamp.

 

[Robbie_d]

He mentioned that because it was back on post #3 where you said you were a tenant in a second story apartment. Roots clogging lines of a house is not a DIY thing.

Okay, I see what he meant.
How am I supposed to know that roots can cause a clog?... lol. This the first time I am under my sink doing this sort of thing.
I am learning, though.

That was the only paragraph of post #20 with a question mark.

Yes. I mentioned the whole post (#20) in case you didn't see that post or any other information I may have provided in that post.

I did not know the answer, and I was surprised you were bringing crap back up. Also, when you said empty the drain, I was thinking of the hole in the bottom of the sink bowl. I guess you might have been referring to the plug on the P-trap. Most P-traps don't have plugs.

"...bringing crap back up again."?
I had thought maybe you had missed that #20 post or those two questions, as you didn't answer the questions when I asked them. That's the only reason why I asked you to see that (#20) post.

I am not really sure what are the correct "terms" to use when speaking on this topic. So when I "empty the drain" with a clogged pipe (under the counter), I mean I am emptying everything on either side of the trap, ie: the pipes, whatever is still in the sink and still in the trap itself, by using the trap cleanout hole.

We know that on my trap there is a cleanout "hole" or "plug". There are photos of it, and we referred to it.

I want to apologize for my ignorance on the topic of plumbing and all the parts and even the names of tools used in plumbing. I just wanted to make a pot of green tea, and POOF!... here I am with the plumbers trying to unclog my sink pipe lol.
I do not fit into this forum, at all, really lol. I am a guitarist.

If you undid the banded/shielded coupling, you could pull a section of stuff loose, and have nice access for cleaning the piece you temporarily pulled out. It is not as big a deal as I think you are thinking. I have used a 2-inch Fernco Proflex and totally removed the metal. The ends come apart....

I finally undid the banded coupler, only on the left side (the side opposite the steel pipe) and removed that section. Thanks for the insight of what I might find under there. It was easy to undo the clamp with a pair of plyers, and the pipe came out, and will go back in, without any problems.
All that is there now is the wall pipe, the iron elbow, the galvanized steel pipe, and the banded coupler.
Nothing was found in the PVC pipes and in iron elbow, at all, though.

The clog is only in the pipe in the wall, now.
I think the clog must look like a ball of tea leaves and tea leaf twigs and grains of rice (as this type of green tea has all of that in it).

I am not sure if all I will do with a snake is push the clog deeper down the pipe.

I am BOTHERED GREATLY because the clog WAS in the p-trap, at first - but now, it's moved into the wall in the pipe. Sheesh!

I am not sure how far the clothes hanger is going into the wall pipe as I can't see a thing (that is IF it is going IN to the wall pipe at all.
And when I pull the clothes hanger back out, i am not pulling any tea leaves or muck OUT of the pipe, though, so I am thinking the hanger is getting snagged on the pipe somewhere. It's probably NOT even entering the wall pipe, at all.

I placed myself deeper under the counter to get a better look at the pipe in the wall and to see how it's connected to the iron elbow.
Here is how it looks in words:
From the wall, there is a metal pipe (of some kind) with threads on the outside of the pipe.
Those threads were screwed into the iron (female) elbow, (the iron elbow has two female holes)
The galvanized steel pipe (with the banded coupler) also has threads on the outside which screws into the other side of the iron elbow.
See photos. I can't photograph the pipe coming out of the wall due to bad angles.

If I can, first, unscrew the galvanized pipe from the iron elbow, and then unscrew the other side of the elbow from the wall pipe, I could then have direct access to the wall pipe.
It would have to be taken apart in sections because of limited working space.

There is another way to have direct access to the wall pipe, and that is to leave the galvanized steel pipe in place and just unscrew the iron elbow from the pipe in the wall. But I can only do that if I, first, clear off the long, single shelf holding all my pots, and then remove the entire shelf, if possible. I have a small kitchenette and I have no idea how I would even get that shelf out from under there in one piece. This kitchen must have been put together like a game of Tetris, meaning, the counter must have been dropped, section by section, into place from above and, then, built up to look like a kitchen counter, probably before the walls were put up. It's small, in here.
That shelf will surely be in the way with the galvanized pipe attached to the elbow as it will prevent the unscrewing action because the space is too small down there.

I could avoid all of that work, hassle and worry by just buying a snake, right?
The thing is I have no idea how long a snake I should buy. Is a fifteen-feet snake long enough? I would hate to buy a 15 footer and it's too short somehow, leaving me in the unwanted position of having to buy a, second, longer snake.
I'm trying NOT to spend any money (or too much of it) on this.
Either way, it's cheaper than paying a plumber, so if I have to buy a snake, so be it (grumble grumble).

Do you, yourself, know, or know someone who knows, if a snake COULD actually push a clog deeper down the wall pipe?

If only I could get that elbow off, I could have more options.
Options like 1. having direct access to the wall pipe so the clothes hanger could be proven useful or not, and 2. maybe I could put a drain cleaning chemical right down into the wall pipe.

I can't see how pouring a drain cleaner into the sink will clear a clog that is past the trap and in the wall pipe. Is that normally done?

I was watching a video of a plumber who doesn't like using chemicals because he says, "If the drain chemical doesn't work, you will have to deal with it when you start snaking and pulling up junk with drain cleaning acid on the junk and the snake".
He had what appeared to be a really long snake.

In my lease, it does state, "Do not use chemicals in clogged drains".

I wish I would have just unscrewed the trap and got at that clog before it moved down the line. It would have been over by now.

Thanks

 

[MACPLUMB]

You need to stop pussy footing around and get a Electric 25' snake that drain pipe goes all the way down the wall and across to a sewer pipe under the basement and that is how you have to snake the drain to clear blockage,
Do "NOT" try removing the steel pipe you are just wasting your time and will open up a can of worms that will take a real
Plumber to fix the pipes that is why they used that no hub coupler,
you cannot learn how to be a Plumber just from watching some U tube Videos it takes YEARS of training and EXPERIENCE

 

[FullySprinklered]

I've had a shart-load of guitars myself. There's a 1969 D-35 Martin under the bed upstairs that I haven't seen in a while. Soon as I quit drinking beer and playing music, my income went up 4 times. Sold and given away quite a few. Maybe plumbing and guitar picking are mutually exclusive.
By the way, I learn something new every time I leave the house. You're not supposed to know it all when it comes to plumbing. If you like puzzles, you might love plumbing.

 

[Robbie_d]

You need to stop pussy footing around and get a Electric 25' snake that drain pipe goes all the way down the wall and across to a sewer pipe under the basement and that is how you have to snake the drain to clear blockage,
Do "NOT" try removing the steel pipe you are just wasting your time and will open up a can of worms that will take a real
Plumber to fix the pipes that is why they used that no hub coupler,
you cannot learn how to be a Plumber just from watching some U tube Videos it takes YEARS of training and EXPERIENCE

Hi,
Thank you. As we all know, I am not a plumber. I don't claim, and haven't claimed to be a plumber. And i am not pretending to be, or trying to act like "a plumber". I do not have any EXPERIENCE in plumbing, whatsoever.
So if I screw anything up, yes, I will have to call a plumber.

I am still wondering what's keeping those pipes in place in the iron elbow, though. There are threads and someone screwed them on, in the first place. Can't they be screwed off and back on again?
What is there, as is, can't be a standard setup, can it?
I see other pipes in kitchen walls on, yes, youtube, and they don't look like mine, at all. The REAL plumbers or regular, DIY-home-owners on youtube are working right in the wall pipe in their videos.
Does one need a special skill to unscrew and re-screw a threaded pipe?
I was, certainly, not talking about cutting the pipe, which in my mind would be totally stupid lol. But i do see threads, and threads turn, normally. But I am not a plumber and so, I ask that question. "Slapping my hand" and saying, "DON'T TOUCH THAT" is really not an answer I was expecting.

Anyway I have a lot of ideas I would like to get ironed out in the forum, here, before I buy or rent an electric snake, or have to call a REAL plumber and pay REAL DOLLARS which I don't have, to solve a problem that could probably be solved right here in this forum.

First, as I think I might've already mentioned this fact to someone else (i am not sure if I have - but will repeat it if I did mention it). When the clog was in the trap, I was only able to pour 750 ml into the sink before it rose to the part of the sink where the stopper goes.
After, plunging a few times, I was able to pour in 1100 ml of water before the water rose to the stopper.
Now remember, during all this time, if I wanted to empty the pipes to try the clothes hanger (as a makeshift snake), I had to unscrew the cleanout plug on the p-trap to let the water drain into a bucket.

Now, please see the photos, below, and see the end of my Kirby (Heritage 2) vacuum cleaner hose and an attachment which came with the machine to which I've added an elastic band to act as a gasket. That attachment got damaged years ago, anyway, and I never used it - but I still kept it. I am glad I did keep it.

So what I did follows: I put 1100 ml of boiling hot water into the sink and let it go down the drain as before. Then, I attached the vacuum hose to the exhaust of the vacuum cleaner (to have an air-compressor) and placed it (as shown) very tightly in place (where the stopper goes) so no air would escape, and BLEW air into the drain to push the water through the pipe.
Now, I am able to pour 2 liters (or 2000 ml) of water into the drain. And blowing the water through the pipes, like this, empties the pipe - completely dry. And I only let the air blow for maybe...30 seconds or so (I didn't time it). So, now, I no longer have to unscrew the trap cleanout to let the water drain out.
What I did, here, was fill the pipe with boiling water and blew air into the pipe to move the clog further down the wall pipe. It did move the clog a bit further down the pipe.

And this gave me an idea which has something to do with the Zep gel that another forum member mentioned earlier (on page 1) on which I would like to have someone's opinion, please.

Here is what I am thinking: What if I added Zep gel to the sink drain (where the stopper goes), then add 2 liters of boiling water and use the Kirby "air compressor" to blow the water and Zep gel through the clog?
Could that do the trick?

As it looks now, I am able to drain the pipe, completely, with the air compressor. So, now I am able to use the sink as before the clog, happened - so long as I blow the water down the drain with the compressor after washing dishes, for example.
This idea, sort of, works like a bladder but with air pushing the water through the pipe instead of just water pressure alone. Good idea? I think it is. Let me know, please. Just shower me with compliments about my thinking brain.

I am wondering if I use Zep gel with this air compressor idea, will it loosen the (moveable) clog and help move it down to the sewer pipe?
Any opinions on this?

I just want to say thank you to everybody for your comments so far.
Robbie

 

[Robbie_d]

I've had a shart-load of guitars myself. There's a 1969 D-35 Martin under the bed upstairs that I haven't seen in a while. Soon as I quit drinking beer and playing music, my income went up 4 times. Sold and given away quite a few. Maybe plumbing and guitar picking are mutually exclusive.
By the way, I learn something new every time I leave the house. You're not supposed to know it all when it comes to plumbing. If you like puzzles, you might love plumbing.

Oh, really? Well, then, I hope you can enjoy this.

I am not a professional musician. But i am a multi instrumentalist (my main instrument is guitar). I had the talent to be famous when I was younger but life happened and I had to live my life.
I don't play hardly enough any more. I do go to a week-end jam-night most Fridays, though, so I can "let loose".
I would have liked to have been...focused enough(?) (or guided into by my mom) to get myself into a trade, when i was younger. That didn't happen, either.
One of the things I did was be a Thai chef's apprentice, 14 years ago.
I do still cook Thai food once in a while, at home. I haven't forgotten too much.

I do like to think that because I was never stuck in a "career" per se, I was able to learn a bunch of other things (things that i can't really make money doing, as I am not "properly trained" or "certified" in anything).

In music, it's very difficult to make a name and make enough money at it.
And being from and living in Montreal, Quebec and not being fluently bilingual makes regular job-hunting sort of a hassle and a drag.
My generation in Montreal hardly speaks French. And in Quebec, if you want a job, you'll need to be pretty fluent in the French language.

Robbie

 

[MACPLUMB]

MANY MANY YEARS AGO THOSE PIPES WERE SCREWED TOGETHER! But it would take a lot more force then you can put on those pipes without a compound wrench, They are frozen together by years of rust and corrosion

 

[MACPLUMB]

if you could turn them it would brake the pipes in the wall and then you need a plumber

 

[Robbie_d]

if you could turn them it would brake the pipes in the wall and then you need a plumber

Hi,
Thank you so much for sharing your experience.
Now I understand why I should not try "screwing" around with those pipes.
This building was constructed in 1972. So that's 35 years.

Wait a minute, though. I am just thinking, on the forum, as opposed to thinking out loud.
Rust can't be within the threaded area as the threads are on the outside of the pipes, can it? It seems no water has touched the threads.
I am not implying that you are wrong - you're a master plumber.

But it doesn't seem logical, to guitar player me, that there can be rust where the threads are, because if there's rust in the threads, doesn't that mean that water seeped out, meaning a leaky water pipe?
I don't doubt that there is rust in the pipes somewhere where the water touches the metal, but within the threads, shouldn't that area be completely dry?

Hmm 1972, I wonder if there are lead pipes carrying my drinking water supply to my faucet. Do you know anything about when lead pipes or lead-welded joints were used, in Montreal, Canada?

 

[Robbie_d]

Hmm 1972, I wonder if there are lead pipes carrying my drinking water supply to my faucet. Do you know anything about when lead pipes or lead-welded joints were used, in Montreal, Canada?

I found the answer to this.
Montreal stopped using lead in pipes in 1970.

 

[Reach4]

But it doesn't seem logical, to guitar player me, that there can be rust where the threads are, because if there's rust in the threads, doesn't that mean that water seeped out, meaning a leaky water pipe?

If you apply enough force, you might do what you want. You also might break the sanitary tee in the wall. The consequences of that is that drain water would fall into the wall and down to the apartment(s) below you. The prospective gain is not worth the risk.

If you break a guitar string, you know how to deal with that. Working with the slip joint stuff you have been doing is analogous to changing a guitar string. You are proposing seems like something more serious like changing a bridge, but I am only guessing that changing a bridge is harder than it first seems.

 

[Robbie_d]

Hi, Reach

I was just wondering how rust can get inside the threads of two, connecting, threaded pipes.
After reading Masterplumb777's last comment, I doubt I will try to remove the pipes to get to the wall. I don't want to risk damaging things.


I put the system back together and I am trying the hot water idea, but, now I'm blowing it through the pipe with the exhaust on my Kirby vacuum placed firmly into the drain hole in the sink basin. I am able to completely empty the water in the pipes quickly (takes 45 seconds) like this, but it's still clogged with only a small hole in the clog allowing the water to be blown through it.

This clog can't be a grease clog because it clogged up as soon as I put the leaves in the drain but still, i just poured a 32 fl oz bottle of concentrated Mela Magic (heavy-duty all-purpose cleaner) which I had for years and never used it once, into the dry drain and then used the air compressor to blow into the pipes. The ingredient says it has cleaning and degreasing agents (non-ionic surfactants), solubilizers, and a solvent (plus fragrance) in it.
I'll wait a bit longer and then add the boiling water and see if that loosens it up.

Thanks,
Robbie

 

[Reach4]

Had you taken the money you have spent on chemicals, you could have bought a snake or two.

I am able to completely empty the water in the pipes quickly (takes 45 seconds)

45 seconds does not seem fairly quick to me.

If your vacuum cleaner was a wet-dry vacuum, you could try sucking. If you take the coupling off again some day, you might try that with the Kirby. Especially after working with your coat hanger or snake.

On your water volume measurements, suppose you measure the inside cross sectional volume of the pipe and trap. Suppose that was 11.4 square cm ("pie are square "corresponding to 1.5 inch ID pipe). 1100 ml is 1100 cubic cm. Assume 100 ml was the water in the drain basket. That leaves 1000 ml for the trap and trap arm and pipe. 1000/11.4 is 96.5 cm along the trap path and trap arm. Expect your fairly-full clog starts about there.

Your pipe might be a different size. There are other factors that affect the actual numbers, but that could get you in the ballpark.

 

[Robbie_d]

Had you taken the money you have spent on chemicals, you could have bought a snake or two.

45 seconds does not seem fairly quick to me.

If your vacuum cleaner was a wet-dry vacuum, you could try sucking. If you take the coupling off again some day, you might try that with the Kirby. Especially after working with your coat hanger or snake.

On your water volume measurements, suppose you measure the inside cross sectional volume of the pipe and trap. Suppose that was 11.4 square cm ("pie are square "corresponding to 1.5 inch ID pipe). 1100 ml is 1100 cubic cm. Assume 100 ml was the water in the drain basket. That leaves 1000 ml for the trap and trap arm and pipe. 1000/11.4 is 96.5 cm along the trap path and trap arm. Expect your fairly-full clog starts about there.

Your pipe might be a different size. There are other factors that affect the actual numbers, but that could get you in the ballpark.

Hi,

I've only spent $3.50 so far on ONE drain cleaner. The Mela Magic was given to me.

I say it's "quick" compared to how it takes all night to drain only 1/3 of a cup of standing water. If I wash a sink of dishes and remove the stopper, the water would still be there in the trap even after several days. And yes, I know that there is always water in the trap but i can tell there is water in the wall pipe because of how much water I am able to pour back in, after using the compressor,) until it rises to where the stopper goes.
Actually, I made an error in my water volume in my previous post on that topic. I can only get 1.5 L of water in there, not 2 L. It went from 750 ml to 1100 ml to 1500 ml (not 2 L as I wrote).

With the Kirby blowing into the drain, I could empty everything after a few blows of 45 seconds each. See how I mean it's "quicker"?

I did notice it's marked 1 and 1/2" on the trap pipe.
The Kirby is not designed to take in water.

Thank you
Robbie

PS
I should write a song about a clogged drain.

 

[FullySprinklered]

Oh, really? Well, then, I hope you can enjoy this.

I am not a professional musician. But i am a multi instrumentalist (my main instrument is guitar). I had the talent to be famous when I was younger but life happened and I had to live my life.
I don't play hardly enough any more. I do go to a week-end jam-night most Fridays, though, so I can "let loose".
I would have liked to have been...focused enough(?) (or guided into by my mom) to get myself into a trade, when i was younger. That didn't happen, either.
One of the things I did was be a Thai chef's apprentice, 14 years ago.
I do still cook Thai food once in a while, at home. I haven't forgotten too much.

I do like to think that because I was never stuck in a "career" per se, I was able to learn a bunch of other things (things that i can't really make money doing, as I am not "properly trained" or "certified" in anything).

In music, it's very difficult to make a name and make enough money at it.
And being from and living in Montreal, Quebec and not being fluently bilingual makes regular job-hunting sort of a hassle and a drag.
My generation in Montreal hardly speaks French. And in Quebec, if you want a job, you'll need to be pretty fluent in the French language.

Robbie

Beats the hell out of my three chords.

 

[Robbie_d]

Beats the hell out of my three chords.

Thank you, for that comment.

 

[Robbie_d]

I officially timed how long it takes my Kirby vacuum to blow all of the water down the drain,
and empty the wall pipe.
It takes only 6 seconds.

I've poured gallons and gallons of boiling hot water down the drain, let it sit, and then used the air compressor, and it's still clogged.

Nothing happened after I poured the Mela Magic down the drain, by the way.
It's just a floor cleaner anyway, but it did have a degreaser, and I used it in the concentrated form - without adding water to dilute it. It's still clogged.
I have to keep watering the drain, and using the air compressor on the drain to make sure all the chemicals in that product get flushed out. I am thinking I will have to buy a stronger, professional clogged drain product but I want to be 100% sure the drain is free of chemical residues before I add anything else down there.

I am keeping the whole system filled with water during the night, and in the morning, I re-start with the flushing.
Maybe it could take...a week of flushing the drain to be rid of those chemicals. So long as I can empty the drain with the compressor, i am confidant that I can flush out any remaining chemical residue.

I had asked this question before but there was no response. So, i'll ask it again.
If I buy a drain cleaning chemical, and the clog is in the wall pipe, how should I get that chemical into the wall pipe if I don't have direct access to it?
Can I pour the product into the drain hole in the sink basin, add some water, and then use the air compressor to move the cleaner down to the clog?
It might only take 3 seconds of air compression to do it.
At least, i can blow the water down the drain, so I know it's not completely clogged. With using the air compressor, the sink is somewhat functional. I am not panicking - but it's a pain in the butt having the Kirby, on the counter, beside the sink.

Any suggestions on this, or other inexpensive methods?
Buying a snake is not what I want to do just yet. That snake will cost more than I am willing to spend (at this point in time).

Thanks to all, for any advice.
Robbie