Loose electrical box conundrum

[LarryLeveen]

Older (1895) home has many electrical outlets installed in the tallish floor molding. One box, made of bakelite, is loose. The box is supposed to secure in place by tightening a screw in the very back of the box (fun!), which is threaded into a rigid strap of metal that presses on the back side of the wall on both sides of the box. This draws the box into the wall until, ideally, tabs at the top and bottom of the box contact the front side of the wall; a pinch-action somewhat similar electrical boxes with pop-up wings used in retrofitting electrical into an existing wall.

The hole for this box was cut too large (and sloppy) resulting in the upper tab bending and breaking. OK, no problem, just replace it with a modern box with wings. Unfortunately, the molding is too thick/deep for the wings to reach behind -- these boxes are probably intended only for drywall, which is thinner.

Are other retrofit box types or mounting approaches that could work?

I am hoping not to remove the floor molding which will damage the plaster walls.

 

[Stuff]

Those types of wings are still sold today https://www.homedepot.com/p/RACO-Switch-Box-Support-10-Pack-970RAC/203638798. You are correct. Most are sized for 1/2" drywall.

Instead use battleship straps. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Old-Work-Switch-Box-Mounting-Holder-Case-of-25-820D1U-25R/202596361 - I use this version as they handle thicker plaster. Other versions out there tend to be too short.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Stuff]

Actually, since you have NM cable you can use a new plastic box. Try https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-Gang-14-cu-in-Old-Work-Box-B114RB/100404027 Sometimes you can back off the screws to fit with thicker wall material.

 

[Mr. Mint]

You might be able to get a tube of "Quick Steel", a putty-like epoxy that you knead prior to using. I can't see exactly what you have but perhaps you can have someone hold and position the box and then lock it into position using this product. Typically, you roll it between your hands to form a "snake" and then press the material into place. If there is a lot of excess space, perhaps you could build up layers.

 

[LarryLeveen]

Those types of wings are still sold today https://www.homedepot.com/p/RACO-Switch-Box-Support-10-Pack-970RAC/203638798. You are correct. Most are sized for 1/2" drywall.

Instead use battleship straps. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Old-Work-Switch-Box-Mounting-Holder-Case-of-25-820D1U-25R/202596361 - I use this version as they handle thicker plaster. Other versions out there tend to be too short.

I appreciate your reply, though it might not work in this instance because the tall floor molding has "different thickness" at the top and bottom of the box. However, upon searching for how to use those (it wasn't intuitive to me) I see another design of clamping for retrofit boxes that might work.

 

[LarryLeveen]

Actually, since you have NM cable you can use a new plastic box. Try https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-Gang-14-cu-in-Old-Work-Box-B114RB/100404027 Sometimes you can back off the screws to fit with thicker wall material.

Even with flipping the mounting wing around I did not have enough room for the molding thickness needed. I am epoxying on a piece of plastic to extend the brace for the wing to contact and will try a longer screw. If this doesn't work, I'll look for more mounting designs, but I appreciate the ideas, folks, so keep them coming please.

 

[Jadnashua]

I appreciate your reply, though it might not work in this instance because the tall floor molding has "different thickness" at the top and bottom of the box. However, upon searching for how to use those (it wasn't intuitive to me) I see another design of clamping for retrofit boxes that might work.

As long as you can fold over each end into the box, these should work. You might try drilling a couple of holes in the box along with a pilot hole into the molding, and screw the box in place. You might need some washers or a shim to prevent the screw from cracking the box and you'd want to make the hole as far as you can from the front edge.

 

[LarryLeveen]

As long as you can fold over each end into the box, these should work. You might try drilling a couple of holes in the box along with a pilot hole into the molding, and screw the box in place. You might need some washers or a shim to prevent the screw from cracking the box and you'd want to make the hole as far as you can from the front edge.

If I am understanding you right, the battleship straps can probably indeed be crooked and still work fine. I'm less psyched about their holding power than mounting designs that clamp under the tension of fasteners. Am I missing something?

In my original post I mentioned that the hole for this box was cut too large. This means that there really isn't sufficient material for fasteners to secure the box to the molding. A real disappointment.

I saw another type of box that intrigued me. Is there a name for this style:

The individual mounting clips should accommodate differing top and bottom molding thicknesses. I'm inclined to try it should my extended wing brace approach not work. I'm letting the epoxy cure a long time for maximum strength, and have to find a longer screw with the same diameter and thread to go into the wing that came with the box.

 

[WorthFlorida]

You can get a new box and use the clamp from the old one. You may need to just drill a hole in the back of the new box.

http://www.lawoolley.com/pdf/steel_city_boxes.pdf

Open this PDF file and you'll need to at 150% to be readable. On page A9 box number CDOW -TG-25 may work. It looks like your hole is too wide for any new box of 2x3 inch. Also your depth may be a hindrance but that old box that came out looks to be the same size as current sizing. My comment are what the pictures seem to show.

 

[LarryLeveen]

The CDOW-TG-25 looks like it might indeed work -- even if I have to nip off the tops of the two moving clamp ears (again, weird top vs. bottom thickness issue that I can't show via pix). Gonna try my extendo-flip-wing box first, but it's nice to know there might be a few other options. The particular application is a pain in the butt and having multiple designs might just yield a solution. Thanks.

 

[WorthFlorida]

I just happen to be at Lowes today in the electrical dept and this box was on the shelf. As long as the top and bottom flanges are on the outside of the base mold, the wings on the side will fold up at the thickest part of the molding and pull the box in for a tight fit. Both the top and bottom of the side wings do not have to make contact.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Raco-1-Gan...-Outlet-Celing-Wall-Electrical-Box/1000097860

This looks the same as mentioned above.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/STEEL-CITY-12-5-cu-in-1-Gang-Metal-Old-Work-Wall-Electrical-Box/3317944

 

[LarryLeveen]

I just happen to be at Lowes today in the electrical dept and this box was on the shelf. As long as the top and bottom flanges are on the outside of the base mold, the wings on the side will fold up at the thickest part of the molding and pull the box in for a tight fit. Both the top and bottom of the side wings do not have to make contact.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Raco-1-Gan...-Outlet-Celing-Wall-Electrical-Box/1000097860

This looks the same as mentioned above.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/STEEL-CITY-12-5-cu-in-1-Gang-Metal-Old-Work-Wall-Electrical-Box/3317944

Just following up to let you know that I could not find #6x2" screws to try out my otherwise ingenious "wing box extension". Instead, I found success with the first of the two box types you mentioned.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Raco-1-Gan...-Outlet-Celing-Wall-Electrical-Box/1000097860

It actually is ever so slightly lower profile than the second option. BTW, the side wings on the second box are available as an accessory to mount other boxes in a similar fashion. They were less than $2, and if the plastic wing box fit better into the hole (the box is slightly too big) then I would have used them instead of the troublesome-though-brilliant top extend-o-wing™.

Anyway, thanks for all the help. I am continually impressed by how thoughtful and generous people are on these forums.