Loose 2" ABS Fitting & a Fernco Solution?

[Beerski]

We have a leak in our 2" ABS water drain pipe in the basement. It is being caused be a loose fitting. I can rock the inlet pipe and water will gush out when our washing machine is being used.
Is it possible to reglue this joint in place? I am wondering if capillary action will pull the glue into the joint?
Second question. Can I use a Fernco coupling to join the outside of the female end of a ABS pipe fitting directly into a new 2" pipe. Of course, the pipe broken right at the coupling. Do you know which Fernco coupling I should use?
Thanks.

 

[Terry]

The glue will not pull into the joint.

The fix is to remove and start over again. They do make shielded couplings in plastic sizes if that's easier.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Beerski]

Thanks!! May I ask, why a shielded coupling?

 

[wwhitney]

Thanks!! May I ask, why a shielded coupling?

Shielded couplings are required above grade, they provide some rigidity like a glue coupling would. Unshielded is only for use underground, where everything is continuously supported by soil.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Terry]

Without the metal wrap, the rubber can deform over time and block the waste. The rubber Fernco won't pass a plumbing inspection for that reason. I've pulled out quite a few handyman repairs for that reason.

 

[Beerski]

Shielded couplings are required above grade, they provide some rigidity like a glue coupling would. Unshielded is only for use underground, where everything is continuously supported by soil.

Cheers, Wayne

Got it. Thanks, Wayne!

 

[Beerski]

Without the metal wrap, the rubber can deform over time and block the waste. The rubber Fernco won't pass a plumbing inspection for that reason. I've pulled out quite a few handyman repairs for that reason.

Thanks, Terry. Fernco said I should use a shielded variety of P1056-250/22. Finding one appears to be a challenge.
Doing it the "right way" would be my preference, but I have no clue how to patch in a new ABS segment without having to replace the whole system. The Fernco option seems to be my only option. Does the ream out the fitting approach really work?

 

[wwhitney]

How about a picture showing what you are dealing with and explaining what's accessible and what points are fixed?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Beerski]

How about a picture showing what you are dealing with and explaining what's accessible and what points are fixed?

Cheers, Wayne

Hi Wayne,
Thanks for offering to help. Pics attached. Lower Fitting is the loose fitting. Upper Fitting is the pipe cracked below the fitting. Lower is easily accessible. Upper less so.

For the Upper End, simply use the Fernco coupling recommended above to rejoin the broken pipe to the outside of the fitting above it.

At the Lower End, I would prefer not to have to replace the entire main fitting at the bottom. (Not even sure how I would do that. See my Q below.) I am hoping to be able to extract the loose male end in the lower fitting and reglue it.
If I can't remove the lower pipe from that fitting, maybe I can cut it and do the same Fernco coupling deal as above. Please let me know what you think.

Alternately, if you can describe how I might be able to do proper fitting replacements without having to work backwards completely that would help. How do you replace a fitting in a closed system?

Does reaming out a fitting ever work?

Tom

 

[Terry]

I've reamed out fittings before using something like this.

And before these were available, I would saw sections of pipe in the fitting and using a flat blade screw driver chip out the pipe inward to remove. The reamer is way faster.

 

[wwhitney]

If I understand correctly, the second photo is directly about the first photo. I.e. if you cut just above the cracked joint in the second photo, the assembly below that cut would be loose, due to the loose fitting at the bottom.

If it's loose like you could pull it out (after removing a section of pipe to have room to move it), then you might be able to just scrape the hub. You could get a new street 45 and see if it fits--it should go half way in. If so, just scrape the inside of the hub with the edge of a utility blade to knock off any high spots, and with the proper amount of ABS cement you should be able to securely glue in the new street 45. If not, or if the joint doesn't actually come apart, you'd need to use a reamer like Terry described.

Once you have the street 45 replaced, you can glue in a new section of pipe, but obviously not full height, as you need clearance to insert the pipe into the hubs. So what you do is leave out around 4" of pipe, making sure that at each side of the gap you have > 1" of clean pipe.

Then you use two Fernco shielded couplings (3005 series is for plastic to plastic). You cut a piece of pipe to fill the gap but 3/8" short, and make sure all the ends are cleaned and reamed. Slide the shields off the rubber couplings and onto the fixed pipe ends (or one shield can go around the insert piece of pipe. Take the rubber portion of each coupling, put it on one of the fixed ends, and then take the open portion and fold it back on top of itself as far as you can. There's an ~1/8" rubber stop in the middle of the coupling, which should be touching the pipe end, and then the coupling should not project much farther than that into the gap.

Now you should be able to wiggle the pipe segment into place with a bit of effort. Then you can unfold the rubber portion that goes onto the pipe segment, slide the shields into place, and torque to spec.

Cutting the pipe segment 3/8" short is based on 1/8" for each stop, and 1/8" for play because the couplings extend beyond the stop. It's possible that's too little play, and a 1/4" play would be necessary, meaning cut the new pipe segment 1/2" shorter than the gap in the pipe.

If for some reason the wye is damaged, there's a similar procedure using 3 shielded rubber couplings that involves gluing up the wye, street 45, and 3 pipe segments, and inserting that assembly all at once, but that requires more coordination.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Beerski]

If I understand correctly, the second photo is directly about the first photo. I.e. if you cut just above the cracked joint in the second photo, the assembly below that cut would be loose, due to the loose fitting at the bottom.

If it's loose like you could pull it out (after removing a section of pipe to have room to move it), then you might be able to just scrape the hub. You could get a new street 45 and see if it fits--it should go half way in. If so, just scrape the inside of the hub with the edge of a utility blade to knock off any high spots, and with the proper amount of ABS cement you should be able to securely glue in the new street 45. If not, or if the joint doesn't actually come apart, you'd need to use a reamer like Terry described.

Once you have the street 45 replaced, you can glue in a new section of pipe, but obviously not full height, as you need clearance to insert the pipe into the hubs. So what you do is leave out around 4" of pipe, making sure that at each side of the gap you have > 1" of clean pipe.

Then you use two Fernco shielded couplings (3005 series is for plastic to plastic). You cut a piece of pipe to fill the gap but 3/8" short, and make sure all the ends are cleaned and reamed. Slide the shields off the rubber couplings and onto the fixed pipe ends (or one shield can go around the insert piece of pipe. Take the rubber portion of each coupling, put it on one of the fixed ends, and then take the open portion and fold it back on top of itself as far as you can. There's an ~1/8" rubber stop in the middle of the coupling, which should be touching the pipe end, and then the coupling should not project much farther than that into the gap.

Now you should be able to wiggle the pipe segment into place with a bit of effort. Then you can unfold the rubber portion that goes onto the pipe segment, slide the shields into place, and torque to spec.

Cutting the pipe segment 3/8" short is based on 1/8" for each stop, and 1/8" for play because the couplings extend beyond the stop. It's possible that's too little play, and a 1/4" play would be necessary, meaning cut the new pipe segment 1/2" shorter than the gap in the pipe.

If for some reason the wye is damaged, there's a similar procedure using 3 shielded rubber couplings that involves gluing up the wye, street 45, and 3 pipe segments, and inserting that assembly all at once, but that requires more coordination.

Cheers, Wayne


Cheers, Wayne

Thanks for the response, Wayne!!! That's great information. I will head down to the basement and setup a plan. Gluing up replacement fittings and pipes is the pro approach.
As a note, I did find out that Fernco makes a 2" "socket to pipe coupling" the may work on the upper issue. FYI, I asked Fernco about this and they referred me to a different coupling, but never mentioned this more appropriate product. Now, if I can just find a 45 degree version of their 90 degree socket to socket elbow that would give me the answer to my lower issue.
I will let you know how it turns out and if my wife hasn't beaten me senseless for screwing up her laundry schedule while I figure this out.
Best regards,
Tom

 

[Beerski]

I've reamed out fittings before using something like this.

And before these were available, I would saw sections of pipe in the fitting and using a flat blade screw driver chip out the pipe inward to remove. The reamer is way faster.

Thanks, Terry!! I already have a bead on one should I need it. Between your quick responses and Wayne's help I am packing for bear. I really appreciate it. You provide a great service here.

 

[wwhitney]

As a note, I did find out that Fernco makes a 2" "socket to pipe coupling" the may work on the upper issue.

To my knowledge, that coupling is only available unshielded. Above grade couplings must be shielded; the unshielded style is only for use underground.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Beerski]

To my knowledge, that coupling is only available unshielded. Above grade couplings must be shielded; the unshielded style is only for use underground.

Cheers, Wayne

Yeah, I see you are correct. I have been finding conflicting information. One site says you need to use shielded underground due to ground shift. Another agrees with the above ground recommendation. One site mentions the reason for using shielded above ground is to thwart those little creators we call....mice. I will probably use your original solution.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Yeah, I see you are correct. I have been finding conflicting information. One site says you need to use shielded underground due to ground shift. Another agrees with the above ground recommendation. One site mentions the reason for using shielded above ground is to thwart those little creators we call....mice. I will probably use your original solution.

Ok if the fitting is loose at the wye remove clean and glue simple as that. the one above cut out and replace fitting
Don't get too caught up on why a certain code exists we all have different opinions and reasons we think this code or that exists.
I hate to tell you rodents don't just chew rubber they chew through sch 40 abs p traps and sch 40 PVC condensate lines .
That rule on shielded couplings if everything is supported well I think youll get 40 or 50 years out of it possibly the same as no hub or a proper legal fitting but we try to follow code play by rules at least kinda close there's times I feel better about a Fernco than shielded, just a gut feeling about certain materials though mainly old cast iron that has seams and out of round

 

[Beerski]

Jeff,
Yeah, mice are a constant PITA around our house. Didn't know that about the true power of mouse jaws. I was told when packing a hole don't use steel cloth, but I heard they do hate brass scrub pads. Don't get me started on voles.
I appreciate the thoughts.
Best,
Tom