Looking into DIYing well pump install on newly drilled well in the South Central PA region

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JimandCalli

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I'm looking for a well pump recommendation in the Grundfos SQ line for a newly installed well. I've read many many posts on here regarding wells and well pumps. (No rope, no torque arrestors, no pipe centering attachments, check valve only at the pump exit, tape should end on tape, and others!) I'm considering using 200psi 1" poly for the drop and run to the house. I'm also thinking a CSV is the right choice for the new house that will be going up eventually so any pump choice needs to work with that.

According to the well report we received:
  • Well depth is 200'
  • The well pipe is 120' of 6" iron with approximately 2' sticking out
  • Depth to bedrock is 3'
  • Well yield is 34gpm
  • Static water level is 40' below land surface.
  • The highest point in the new house for fixtures will be approximately 6'-8' above ground level.
  • The run from the well to the house is ~60'
FYI... Aquascience wrote me back and recommended the Grundfos 15SQ10-250-230V using the info above. They also said I shouldn't consider a CSV since the pump I'm looking at is not a constant pressure pump and so it won't work, which seemed entirely incorrect to me after reading here and the CSV website and is causing me some doubt over there well pump choice.

Regards,
~jim
 
JimandCalli said:
I'm looking for a well pump recommendation in the Grundfos SQ line for a newly installed well. I've read many many posts on here regarding wells and well pumps. (No rope, no torque arrestors, no pipe centering attachments, check valve only at the pump exit, tape should end on tape, and others!) I'm considering using 200psi 1" poly for the drop and run to the house. I'm also thinking a CSV is the right choice for the new house that will be going up eventually so any pump choice needs to work with that.

According to the well report we received:
  • Well depth is 200'
  • The well pipe is 120' of 6" iron with approximately 2' sticking out
  • Depth to bedrock is 3'
  • Well yield is 34gpm
  • Static water level is 40' below land surface.
  • The highest point in the new house for fixtures will be approximately 6'-8' above ground level.
  • The run from the well to the house is ~60'
FYI... Aquascience wrote me back and recommended the Grundfos 15SQ10-250-230V using the info above. They also said I shouldn't consider a CSV since the pump I'm looking at is not a constant pressure pump and so it won't work, which seemed entirely incorrect to me after reading here and the CSV website and is causing me some doubt over there well pump choice.

Regards,
~jim
Click to expand...
You are correct and right to ask here. The SQ pumps work beautifully with the Cycle Stop Valve. The CSV is what makes the SQ into a constant pressure pump. No need for the expensive CU301 variable speed controller that turns the SQ pump into an SQE. The CSV does a much better job than the CU301.

There really is no one with good well pump experience. Even most installers only know how to install what the supplier makes the most money on, not what is best for the customer. Research, research, research. Then you will know more than the average pump man and can make an informed decision that is best for yourself.

Most can at least size a pump correctly. So, I do agree with the 15SQ10-250 for getting 16-18 GPM at 60 PSI.
 
1. I would not use a 1HP pump for a house in this situation. I would look at the 10SQ05-160 (or maybe 10SQ07-200 if I wanted more power) unless you had some high-backwashing-rate iron filter. Houses seldom use even 10 gpm of water.

2. I would use a flow inducer sleeve. Search on that topic thru past posts.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index....-minimum-between-flow-sleeve-and-pump.100705/ #2 lists preferable PVC pipes for a flow inducer, although you could also go with schedule 40 PVC for easier availability.
 
:) Now I'm even more up in the air on which pump to buy. I will provide some more details on our situation. The property is 2 acres and will have a large garden which is why I was looking for between 10-15 GPMs. It will be a 3 bedroom house with a 2000 sq ft shop (a Barndo) There will be three full baths eventually.

Using the details above, what depth should I set the pump? I was recommended 175' but also read that it can be beneficial to keep the pump inside the casing which goes down 118'.

In order to get above 12GPM do I need 1.25" SIDR pipe coming up the well and to the house to even make that work properly?

~jim
 
JimandCalli said:
:) Now I'm even more up in the air on which pump to buy. I will provide some more details on our situation. The property is 2 acres and will have a large garden which is why I was looking for between 10-15 GPMs. It will be a 3 bedroom house with a 2000 sq ft shop (a Barndo) There will be three full baths eventually.

Using the details above, what depth should I set the pump? I was recommended 175' but also read that it can be beneficial to keep the pump inside the casing which goes down 118'.

In order to get above 12GPM do I need 1.25" SIDR pipe coming up the well and to the house to even make that work properly?

~jim
Click to expand...
If you need 10-15 GPM for irrigation, the larger pump is needed.
 
JimandCalli said:
Any thoughts on reconciling the two different suggestions given here for pumps?
Click to expand...
Note that my suggestion was explicitly for a house, but it would more than suffice for a few typical lawn sprinklers.

Note that 15 gpm of irrigation, while also serving the house, is a different thing, and if that is what you think you want, go for it.

Also, some backwashing iron filters require a lot of gpm. A softener does not need a lot of gpm.
 
What is the reason for installing a SQ in a 6" casing, which is for 3" casings and problem well bores? If irrigation is required, I would spec a real pump for such a large bore to fit my needs.
 
Valveman said:
If you need 10-15 GPM for irrigation, the larger pump is needed.
Click to expand...
Hi, it will be for a large summer garden like 40' x 80', possibly a small late season/ early spring high tunnel, growing new grass, watering the landscaping when needed, etc. For some reason there doesn't seem to be much of a price difference between a 10SQ and the 15SQ pumps that are mentioned.
 
Reach4 said:
Note that my suggestion was explicitly for a house, but it would more than suffice for a few typical lawn sprinklers.

Note that 15 gpm of irrigation, while also serving the house, is a different thing, and if that is what you think you want, go for it.

Also, some backwashing iron filters require a lot of gpm. A softener does not need a lot of gpm.
Click to expand...
Thank you for that feedback. I don't know yet what the water testing is going to show. I need to get it up and out first. It does seem fairly common in my area to have iron treatment systems from local I've talked to.
 
RetiredInGueydan said:
What is the reason for installing a SQ in a 6" casing, which is for 3" casings and problem well bores? If irrigation is required, I would spec a real pump for such a large bore to fit my needs.
Click to expand...
I haven't run across anyone who has suggested that the Grundfos SQ's are not suitable for a 6in casing or that they are for problem wells. Everything I've read is that the SQ's are top of line pumps that are recommended on many of the Youtube sites. A 3" pump in a 3" casing seems unreasonably tight. I'm also considering a flow inducer which brings the pump diameter to at least 4". Am I thinking about this wrong?
 
JimandCalli said:
Hi, it will be for a large summer garden like 40' x 80', possibly a small late season/ early spring high tunnel, growing new grass, watering the landscaping when needed, etc. For some reason there doesn't seem to be much of a price difference between a 10SQ and the 15SQ pumps that are mentioned.
Click to expand...
Other things being equal, you would expect a 5SQ to cost more than a 10SQ which would cost more than a 15SQ. 5SQ has more stages and 15SQ has fewer stages than a 10SQ. However 15SQ will have less production volume, so that may make it cost more than the more popular 10SQ pumps.
 
RetiredInGueydan said:
The only reason that the SQ exist is because it was designed for a 3" casing. If it was so great it would be a 4" pump.
Click to expand...

This official Grundfos video for the 3" SQ pump compared to a 4" pump seems to repudiate your statement entirely.


I also cannot find any info anywhere that backs up your statement that the SQ is for 3" casing or degraded well bores specifically. If that were the case wouldn't it also apply to the 3" SQE line as well, which is also used in a variety of casing sizes and comes highly recommended?
 
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JimandCalli said:
This official Grundfos video for the 3" SQ pump compared to a 4" pump seems to repudiate your statement entirely.


I also cannot find any info anywhere that backs up your statement that the SQ is for 3" casing or degraded well bores specifically. If that were the case wouldn't it also apply to the 3" SQE line as well, which is also used in a variety of casing sizes and comes highly recommended?
Click to expand...
3700 rpm vs. 10k, which do you think will last longer? Usually a salesman isn’t the best source for information.
 
JimandCalli said:
I could be totally wrong! I'm curious as to what others in the forum think about Grundfos SQ pumps? I was under the "internet research" impression it was top-end and for a reason.
Click to expand...
I don't think there is such a thing as "top-end" when it comes to pumps anymore. They are all made with planned obsolescence as the main design criteria. The SQE was actually designed in 1999 to compete with the constant pressure performance of the Cycle Stop Valve. They call it an SQ when the pump is used without the CU301 variable speed controller. Which, BTW works great with Cycle Stop Valve instead of the CU301.

The SQ/SQE spins 10,700 RPM as compared to 3,450 RPM for a 4" pump. From an old Grundfos engineering manual discussing the difference between a 1750 RPM line shaft turbine and a 3450 RPM submersible, it says doubling the RPM will quadruple the wear. I am sure the same is true for the 10,700 RPM SQ/SQE compared to the 3450 RPM pumps in 4" diameter. However, these pumps have been around since 1999 and very few of the failures are from wear. They have been through like 8-9 "Generations" to date, so they have had other problems besides wear. Most problems are associated with the CU301 controller, as the standard SQ without the variable speed controller seems to be holding up fairly well.

The SQ/SQE also has an oil lubricated motor with ball bearings. Ball bearings have a limited life expectancy.
4" motors are water lubricated with a Kingsbury thrust bearing. Kingsbury bearings are frictionless when running, and can last indefinitely if cycling is eliminated. But they do put less into all bearing these days, including the Kingsbury.

I didn't think the little high speed pumps would last very long either, but they have surprised me. Especially when controlled with a Cycle Stop Valve they can last a long time. But even more cheaply built pumps last much longer when cycling is eliminated.

Not sure the SQ is worth the extra cost unless you need the 3" diameter, but you could do worse.
 
Valveman said:
Not sure the SQ is worth the extra cost unless you need the 3" diameter, but you could do worse.
Click to expand...
Thanks for laying all that out Valveman. Do you consider the fact that the SQ has soft start built in a significant advantage? I can't find any other pumps that have soft start built in. It looks like you can add an external soft start box to other pumps but then you're looking at another $350-$450 plus the cost of fittings added to the cost of say a good Franklin pump. Also it seems the external soft start limits the initial starting current to 40-50% of what it would be, whereas the SQ seems to ramp up slowly and with almost NO extra amperage drawn at all? That seems like it's worth the cost of admission in and of itself? It seems like there would be a whole lot less wriggling around going on down there from start ups?

I may also be naively thinking that the 3" diameter is actually a plus when it comes to all the worries about things possibly getting stuck?
 
JimandCalli said:
I may also be naively thinking that the 3" diameter is actually a plus when it comes to all the worries about things possibly getting stuck?
Click to expand...
If you have a 4 inch steel casing, then it is a strong plus.

The SQ pumps are much easier to power with a generator, and that can be a plus.

With my 4-inch steel casing, my plan is to put an SQ pump in a flow inducer if I need to get a new pump. I would probably make the flow inducer from pvc solid sched 30 od:3.25 ID: 3.00

"4 inch" pumps are between 3.9 and 3.75 inch max, with the smaller ones called trimline/slimline, etc.
 
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